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Thread: Incarnation of Shiva

  1. #21
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    Arrow Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    This post is inspired by the Siva Sutra thread. Lord Shiva's incarnations are not as widely known as Lord Vishnu's.
    Would be very helpful if we could collect more information about 'Incarnations of Shiva'.
    Namaste,

    If U mean pauranika & folk mythology, then there are some Shivavataras mentioned such as Lakulisha.
    But basically Shiva (or Rudra) as samhArashakti-svarUpa does not incarnate since he deals with destruction only (and his avatAra as Kalagnirudra brings pralaya), while Shiva as Paramashiva never "incarnates" since He is Parabrahma-Parameshvara manifested in everything.
    However, we can say that Sadashiva (personification of anugrahashakti) does incarnate in every Guru and Acharya.

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    Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    Arjuna: I agree with all you said. Good posts. However, I always react to the word 'destruction' as I don't think it correctly shows what we actually mean. It's been handed down by westerners who in translations had not the depth to see it as 'dissolution', which makes much more sense to me. What do you think? Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    Namaste Atanuji.

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    As far as I can follow from shruti all manifestations are of Rudra-Shiva alone, including Vishnu, who is not another at all. One who is sthanu is Shiva and who has movement is Vishnu. But the Sthanu is alone moving and the movement leads to the Sthanu.
    'A rose is a rose is a rose is a rose' said the poet Robert Burns. I appreciate the ontological details of hierarchy of Shiva, but Shiva is Shiva in any form he takes avatar. And that Shiva, as you have rightly observed, is Grace, the grace of granting Mukti, which is the exclusive right of Shiva alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    For a true devotee of Shiva, everything is Shiva-Parvati. Yet such a devotee, when graced with sweet magic -- through any form, whether as a mad man (as in Sundara's case) or as a labourer (for Amma), will know the grace as Shiva only.
    Mother is the favourite of some children; for some, Father is the favourite; for yet others, Maamaa (maternal uncle) is the favourite relation. Thus Parvati, Shiva and Vishnu are the Ishta Devata of the sects established in the names of Shakta, Shaiva and Vaishnava. Yet we all are Shiva's children.

    Even Parvati, Shiva's Shakti and consort, has reincarnated on many occasions. Shiva as the One remains for ever and the many lead to him ultimately.

    Aum namah shivAya!

  4. #24
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    Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    Namaste All,

    Going back to the original post about Siva and incarnation … obviously, there are different answers to the question of Siva and incarnation depending on whether one is speaking from the Saiva or Smarta point of view.

    From the standpoint of Siva-Shasana (Agamic Saivism), there are no Siva Avatars (incarnations). What do we mean by Avatar (incarnation) here? As used here, Avatar or incarnation means the idea that God takes a birth in a certain family, fulfills the intended purpose, and then gives up that form – this sort of teaching is not there in Saivism. However, there are manifestations or forms in which Siva may appear in mystic visions, in various legends, stories, Itihasas, Puranas, etc. Agamic Saivism recognizes 64 of these forms which are called Maheshvara Murtis, and considers 25 of these as primary.

    In Saivism, the word avatara (meaning “descent”) itself has a different connotation. The descent in Saivism is not of God’s form, but of God’s knowledge. Some of the Saiva Agamas begin with a chapter called Tantra-Avatara Patala (Chapter on the Descent of Tantras), which explains that Siva alone is the source of all knowledge – Vedic, Agamic, philosophical, secular and even heretical. Since all knowledge is considered descended from Siva Himself, Siva-Dakshinamurti is the primal Teacher, the Guru of all gurus.

    Any human Guru who is fully realized and embodies the divine knowledge of Siva is therefore identified with Siva Himself. This is why we find the most famous Sages, Siddhas and Saiva Satgurus like Dattatreya, Durvasa, Agastya, Lakulisha and Gorakshanatha identified with Siva Himself. Similarly, the most famous of Sivacharyas like Abhinavagupta, Manikkavacagar, etc. have also both been called Siva in human form because they were perfectly absorbed in the knowledge of Siva. It is possible that Adi Shankara was also identified with Siva by his followers (Smartas) for the very same reason.

    The teaching that Siva is Guru, and Guru is Siva in human form was most fully explored by the Lakulisha-Pashupata school, a reformed sect of the ancient Pashupata religion that appeared around the first century CE. One of the beliefs of Lakulisha-Pashupatas was that in each dvapara and kali yuga, there arises a great Guru of mankind, who fully embodies the divine knowledge of Siva. The Guru who appears at the end of the dvapara yuga was called a Veda Vyasa, and the Guru who appears in the kaliyuga was called a Yogeshvara. According to this school, some of whose teachings are found in the Siva and Linga Puranas, the most recent Veda Vyasa was Krsna-Dvaipayana, and the most recent Yogeshvara was Jagadguru Lakulisha, the great reformer of the Pashupata school. In fact, the Linga Purana lists 28 Veda Vyasas and 28 Yogeshvaras that have thus far been. In Agamic Saivism, however, this teaching is not accepted.

    Aum Namah Shivaya,
    A.



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    64 Maheshvara Murtis of Siva

    Here is a list of the 64 Maheshvara Murtis of Siva. The first 25 are sometimes considered the most important of the 64. Sometimes, the list is extended to 108 Maheshvara Murtis, which is inclusive of the 64.

    64 Maheshvara Murtis (Forms) of Siva

    1.Bhikshatana Murti
    2.Nataraja Murti
    3.Aja-Ekapada Murti
    4.Yoga-Dakshinamurti
    5.Lingodhava Murti
    6.Kamadahana Murti (Kamari)
    7.Tripurantaka Murti(Tripurari)
    8.Mahakaleshvara Murti (Kalari/Kalantaka/Kalasamhara)
    9.Jalandharavata Murti (Jalandhari)
    10.Gajasurasamhara Murti (Gajantika)
    11.Virabhadra Murti (Karala)
    12.Kankala-Bhairava Murti
    13.Kalyanasundara Murti
    14.Vrishabharudha Murti
    15.Chandrashekhara Murti
    16.Uma-Maheshvara Murti
    17.Shankaranarayana Murti (Keshavardha/Harihara)
    18.Ardanarishvara Murti
    19.Kirata Murti
    20.Chandeshvaranugraha Murti
    21.Chakradaneshvararupa Murti (Chakrapradasvarupa)
    22.Somaskanda Murti
    23.Gajamukhanugraha Murti
    24.Nilakantha-Maheshvara Murti
    25.Sukhasana Murti
    26.Mukhalinga Murti (Panchamukhalingam)
    27.Sadashiva Murti
    28.Mahasadashiva Murti
    29.Umesha Murti
    30.Vrishabhantika Murti
    31.Bhujangarlalita Murti
    32.Bhujangatrasa Murti
    33.Sandhyanritta Murti
    34.Sadanritta Murti
    35.Chanda-Tandava Murti
    36.Gangadhara Murti
    37.Gangavisarjana Murti
    38.Jvarabhagna Murti
    39.Shardhulahara Murti
    40.Pashupata Murti
    41.Vyakhyana-Dakshinamurti
    42.Vina-Dakshinamurti
    43.Vaguleshvara Murti
    44.Apat-Uddharana Murti
    45.Vatuka Bhairava Murti
    46.Kshetrapala Murti
    47.Aghorastra Murti
    48.Dakshayajnahara Murti
    49.Ashvarudha Murti
    50.Ekapada-Trimurti
    51.Tripada-Trimurti
    52.Gaurivaraprada Murti
    53.Gaurililasamanvita Murti
    54.Vrishabhaharana Murti
    55.Garudantika Murti
    56.Brahmasirachedataka Murti
    57.Kurmasamhara Murti (Kurmari)
    58.Mastyasamhara Murti (Mastyari)
    59.Varahasamhara Murti (Varahari)
    60.Simhagna Murti (Sharabha/Sharabheshvara)
    61.Raktabhikshapradana Murti
    62.Guru-Murti (Gurushiva)
    63.Prarthana-Murti
    64.Shishyabhava Murti

    List derived from Shaivam.org (edited for clarity)

    Aum Namah Shivaya.
    A.




  6. #26
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    Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    If Siva is truly All and in all, how could he possibly incarnate into a single human body. Wouldn't the rest of us (let alone all of the inanimate universe) be drawn into that, as we are all Siva too. (poor body would just explode from the shock) I think the concept puts Siva in a diminutive light. Siva is everywhere, in the trees, in the swamis, in us, at the core, in the lotus of the heart, "Anbe sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam". So if all of a sudden, Siva went into a single human body, that would put a limit on him. This doesn't jive with his 'infinite' ness. But then again I'm an Agamic Saivite, and as others have so verily stated in previous posts, this concept is not there. But if you want to believe he incarnates, too, that's your right. He's also in that thought. Aum Namasivaya

  7. #27

    Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    If Siva is truly All and in all, how could he possibly incarnate into a single human body. Wouldn't the rest of us (let alone all of the inanimate universe) be drawn into that, as we are all Siva too. (poor body would just explode from the shock) I think the concept puts Siva in a diminutive light. Siva is everywhere, in the trees, in the swamis, in us, at the core, in the lotus of the heart, "Anbe sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam". So if all of a sudden, Siva went into a single human body, that would put a limit on him. This doesn't jive with his 'infinite' ness. But then again I'm an Agamic Saivite, and as others have so verily stated in previous posts, this concept is not there. But if you want to believe he incarnates, too, that's your right. He's also in that thought. Aum Namasivaya
    Infact, I should return the question back to you. "If Siva is truly All and in all, how could he possibly be the ignorant men that we are?".

    The reason is Siva is normally concealed by his own will. In an avatara, there is no such concealment. It is also totally wrong to think that the body of an avatara is made up of the same flesh and bones that we have, and that it is limited to any extent. An avatara's body is made of shuddha chaitanya. This point is specifically pointed out in the Gita :- 9.11. (only fools think that the Lord in the human body is of the same nature as other men)
    He is the one on whom our hope depends. For if Hanuman survives, all we though dead are yet alive. But if his precious life be lost though living still we are but dead: He is our hope and sure relief -Jambavan (Yuddha Kanda. 74). Impossibility=Hanuman

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    Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    If Siva is truly All and in all, how could he possibly incarnate into a single human body. Wouldn't the rest of us (let alone all of the inanimate universe) be drawn into that, as we are all Siva too. (poor body would just explode from the shock) I think the concept puts Siva in a diminutive light. Siva is everywhere, in the trees, in the swamis, in us, at the core, in the lotus of the heart, "Anbe sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam". So if all of a sudden, Siva went into a single human body, that would put a limit on him. This doesn't jive with his 'infinite' ness. But then again I'm an Agamic Saivite, and as others have so verily stated in previous posts, this concept is not there. But if you want to believe he incarnates, too, that's your right. He's also in that thought. Aum Namasivaya

    Namaste Eastern Mind,

    Leave alone Shiva, one who has gained Shiva knowledge is not located in a body, though apparently for me and you, such a jnani may appear to be limited by a body.

    These bodies are like costumes used in drama etc., you know. Wise knowers use the costumes in dharmic way and cause less war and strife. Jnanis who are non-different from Atman Shiva have no dharma to adhere to.

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  9. #29
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    Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    Yadhavan : Thank you for clarifying. Although I personally don't believe in avatar at all as its beyond my parampara's teachings, I have begun to understand how Hindus who do believe in avatar see it. From your point of view, it all makes sense. This is good knowledge for me, as I am more able to understand the other side, rather than just be narrow. Regarding that, as probably stated before by myself and others, I believe it most fruitful to stick to one's one's own path so there is less confusion. However, just as inter-faith dialogue is useful for the benefit of the planet's survival, so is Hindu inter-sect dialogue. Aum Namashivaya

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    Re: Incarnation of Shiva

    Namaste EM,
    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    This is good knowledge for me, as I am more able to understand the other side, rather than just be narrow. Regarding that, as probably stated before by myself and others, I believe it most fruitful to stick to one's one's own path so there is less confusion. However, just as inter-faith dialogue is useful for the benefit of the planet's survival, so is Hindu inter-sect dialogue. Aum Namashivaya
    Well said EM. I fully agree. I also believe that it is important for Hindus from different sects to come together and be able to understand, appreciate and respect each others' teachings. In doing that, we need not and should not dilute down the teachings of our own sampradayas and Gurus.

    Aum Namah Shivaya,
    A.



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