Oppressive verses in the Vedas

[Khadgar]

Medically, brain is the most important part of human body. One can not say that a foot is equal to brain.

The body can function fine though not to its optimum without feet. Ever heard of a wheel chair? It is harder to live without feet no doubt but as far as body is concerned it can function...

I see the Body not as a 'body', but as a societal body, in which case, no the society cannot function without the feet.

All societies in the world are divided into classes be it race, economic strength, gender, religious group or any other 'grouping'.

Caste system is no more harmful or immoral than any other division of classes that exist in any society. That is my point.

Fair enough, my point is that 'grouping' is inherently harmful whatever the society. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And so, no one has the right to blame indians, hindus, india, brahmins or any other member of any other caste or class and point fingers and shout and scream oppression oppression all the while when the oppression exists everywhere in due to class divisions in all socieities.

My take is that not only should Indians be blamed, but all societies should be blamed for inequities. But more to the point, rather than blaming, I would like to see us urge for improvement.... I would see all societies work towards equality.

[Agnideva]

Namaste Khadgar,

The very idea that people are 'divided' into groups, especially by birthright, goes against the very fabric of Monism that is the nature of Vedic Philosophy and Sanatani [and in fact all four Karmic] spiritualities.

Whereas casteism codifies this racism into the realm of legality. I'm glad it has been outlawed and will work to see it disappear from the face of Bharat if possible.

Keep fighting the good fight Khadgar. You truly must be kshatriya. There is absolutely no Dharma in holding that some people are unequal by birth, occupation, etc. Swami Vivekananda has said clearly that casteism (caste based discrimination) is against the religion of Vedanta. Personally, it matters little to me how and when these sorts of nefarious beliefs and practices arose in Indian Hindu society. It is far more important that we all realize and teach that caste discrimination in any shape or form is against the higher principles of Sanatana Dharma, and we work to see that it disappears altogether in South Asian society.

OM Shanti,
A.

[satay]

Fair enough, my point is that 'grouping' is inherently harmful whatever the society. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Agreed. However, why is it that non-indians start pointing fingers at the 'caste system' and then point fingers at vedas all the while ignoring the same problem of division strongly supported by their own scriptures?

My take is that not only should Indians be blamed, but all societies should be blamed for inequities. But more to the point, rather than blaming, I would like to see us urge for improvement.... I would see all societies work towards equality.

Sure, now that you agree that the problem is not only localized to India nor to the 'caste system' nor to the 'vedas' specifically not to the yajur and that there is no such society without divisions, yes, I agree that all socieities should be 'equally' blamed and we should 'all' work to improve the situation.

It is unfair to ONLY blame the indians, to point fingers at the 'caste system' and to blame the vedas for the problem of grouping. Examine all societies, all religious scriptures and blame everyone who is participant in the division or grouping of people. That would be rational and fair.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Agnideva

Namaste Khadgar,


Keep fighting the good fight Khadgar. You truly must be kshatriya. There is absolutely no Dharma in holding that some people are unequal by birth, occupation, etc. Swami Vivekananda has said clearly that casteism (caste based discrimination) is against the religion of Vedanta. Personally, it matters little to me how and when these sorts of nefarious beliefs and practices arose in Indian Hindu society. It is far more important that we all realize and teach that caste discrimination in any shape or form is against the higher principles of Sanatana Dharma, and we work to see that it disappears altogether in South Asian society.

OM Shanti,
A.

While it is every ones duty to speak up against discrimination and injustices, that is in no way could be attributed to varna system. All the problems that exists in India and there are many are by no means the fault of Cast systems. The brutal occupation over a thousand years has taken its toll in all departments, only thing that sustain us is our dharma. Varna has been integral part of our society it was there in the past and it still remains now.

The Brits did their best to divide us, fed their lies about the cast system, yet they were the biggest class conscious society ever.
In the context of equality, In Gita Krishna says

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah

The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].(5.18)

Does this mean we interact equally in all the ways? No
Even though we see the soul equally within both. We milk the cow and we learn spiritual topics from the brahmanas.

All the society must progress, but to hold back the more intelligent in preference to positive discrimination, in the name of equality, is a disservice not only to the individual but the nation as a whole.
We must honour the wise and service should not be looked upon as untouchable everything has its place, we must learn to be proper sama-darsinah.

Jai Shree Krishna

[satay]

The only way to rid of all divisions be they race, gender or any other grouping from all societies including Indian is by education. For example, when I came here in Canada in the late 80's racism was quite visible especially against people from east indian origin.

Now I observe that with the newer generation growing up racism is getting reduced. I think this is because more and more kids are getting use to seeing a 'guy with a turban', or 'an indian' sitting in the class (in front mind you) and there are more of us here so there is more exposure to the 'curry culture'.