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Thread: Does science have all answers?

  1. #11
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    Exclamation Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by niorotu
    It is difficult to conceptualize the existence of space ? any space that is devoid of the source. Rather than calling it a space, I would prefer to call it the source ? unmanifest source - God.
    On the other hand, I prefer the term space to denote the two states of God. To me, the term source implies a limitation. It does not adequately evoke the aspects of Eternity and Infinity as does the term space or aakasa.

    The term aakasa has the equivalent term koilon in Theosophy, which derives from the Greek Koilos, meaning hollow. The rough equivalent of koilon is ether in science, but it should not be confused with the etheric matter that composes the first four of the seven sub planes of the physical plane.

    What we call matter (prakriti) is created as bubbles in koilon, by the Great Breath. These bubbles are aggregated into atoms of each plane, as the Great Breath flows outward over eons of time. Thus we have a single bubble as the ultimate atom (called paramAnu) of the Adi plane down to the ultimate atom (anu) of the physical plane, which contains nearly 14 million (49^6) bubbles of koilon. A chemical atom of an element that has one proton and one neutron, each of which has three quarks, with three anu in each quark, has a total of 18 anu's.

    Thus matter or prakriti is the manifested space and ether/aakasa/mulaprakriti/koilon is the unmanifested space (or source if you prefer). This space is pervaded by the Divine Consciousness, which is pure energy and motion.

    Why God created this Universe in the first place?

    The answer to this question has to be realized and experienced rather than thought of or reasoned out, because it is beyond mind and intellect. However, you've given some beautiful and lofty interpretations.

    Quote Originally Posted by niorotu
    Could this be a result of a deep yearning desire in the unmanifest to express His glory? Also by manifesting, to give us something to be in awe of and to find joy in its vasteness and complexity. Or may be, possibly as a demonstration of His power, so that we could have a view of Him or perhaps, to give us something to explore and reach for.
    A very good reasoning indeed! The analogy of an author of a great work of fiction comes to mind. The world and characters created by the author is a manifestation from the author. As novice readers, we are absorbed in the story and characters, forming our own love and hatred of them. As we advance in knowledge, we see more and more of the author in the creation.

    The upanishads say that Brahman willed to multiply, so he manifested as the Saguna Brahman and the Hierarchy of gods and other beings. We can think of an analogy in our daily life:

    When we sleep, we pass from the jagrat state to the svapna state and finally (may be only briefly) into the sushupti (or deep sleep into self-oblivion). Yogis can pass into the fourth state turiya. We are like the unmanifest Brahman in the sushupti state. Nothing exists for us, including our own self in this state. When awakening dawns, we see the world as manifested forms. A child in this state would think that it was he/she who created the world! If God made us in His image, then we as His children play copycat with God in our activities.

    Why did we awake from the most peaceful sleep in the first place? The answer may lie in our will to live, create and experience by indulging in matter and forms. Every night, when we go to sleep, we destroy the forms one by one, until we pass into the sushupti state of self-oblivion.

    Evidences of the great Truths are strewn all around us. In sights and sounds and events that pass by our daily life. If only we care to look around and think over...
    Last edited by saidevo; 12 August 2006 at 11:44 AM.

  2. #12
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    Exclamation Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by niorotu
    It should be remembered that God created us with volition free will to choose.
    The human soul is said to be a triad of atma-buddhi-manas or will-wisdom-activity. The human soul is clothed in seven koshas/sheaths/bodies/principles that fall into a higher triad (atma-buddhi-manas) and a lower quartet (lower manas or kama rupa-astral body-etheric double-physical body). The higher triad atma-buddhi-manas represent the Trinity Shiva-Vishnu-Brahma (in that order) in us. Brahma creates, Vishu pervades and Shiva ensouls. In other words, Shiva is the will, Vishnu the wisdom and Brahma the activity of our souls.

    Using the pot-potter analogy in a lighter vein, Shiva is the space that remains as the ultimate after the pots are broken, Vishnu is the clay and Brahma, the hoary potter!

    What exactly is free-will (or volition) then? How is it related to fate? These questions are beautifully answered in the dialogue between His Holiness Shri Chandrashekhara Bharati Mahaswami and a Disciple), which is found in this link: http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/artic...e_and_Free.htm

    The analogy of an author comes to mind again. Many authors have reported that they start their work of fiction with a basic idea of the landscape and the cast, but once it gets going, the characters play their roles out themselves! A case of fictional characters using their free-will to deside their destinies!

    It is also interesting to note that an author/painter/poet gets his/her inspiration and ideas supplemetned by the thoughts of other entities in the lower (rupa) mental world, and the archetypes of human thoughts in the higher (arupa) mental world according to Theosophical research.

    God is love. Bhagvan Sri Sathya Sai Baba teaches us that Sathya, Dharma, Shanti, Prema and Ahimsa are the attributes of God, who is by Himself Sat-Chit-Ananda. God is full of love, and love is the only emotion that has the highest frequency that can tune in to God.

    At the same time, God is just, like a father to his child (a fond father is a fond father, my English professor used to say). This is why He does not interfere with our karma and free-will, except in cases where the human soul cries out to Him for redemption. Even in such cases, where he reduces the burden of karma of a soul, he usually transfers it to a self-realized soul in human form (may be the guru) who willingly takes it, because the karmic forces need to be played out in full. We read stories of God Himself being under the influence of karmic forces. Thus, it is a loving God as well as a just God, who would not interfere with His creation, except in deserving cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by niorotu
    Putting this all together one may find the creation of the universe was necessary as the arena within which the freewill and character of humanity would be formed to explore and understand the one who created. In doing so, humanity could also learn of evil and act as witnesses against evil.
    Good and evil, like the two sides of a coin, form the duality necessary for manifestation. Understanding this concept would remove questions such as why God created evil or why He sliently lets his children go evil ways and suffer. A funny but deeply philosophical urban legend of a down-to-science professor and a faithful student who explains how evil is merely the absence of good and not a form in itself can be read, among other links, at https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/piperm...ne/009093.html

    All said and done, no one can fathom the intentions of God or the reasons for His manifesting the universe and its beings, and letting them interact and play out their karma, life after life, and silently, patiently and lovingly watch over his creations, not from the yonder skies but from within the beings themselves, like the two birds of the Svetasvatara Upanishad (4:6): Two birds of beautiful plumage — inseparable friends — live on the same tree. Of these two one eats the sweet fruit while the other looks on without eating. (translation by Swami Sivananda).

    Most appropriately, the Hindu scriptures say that it is all God's lila.
    Last edited by saidevo; 12 August 2006 at 11:52 AM.

  3. #13
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    Smile Re: Does science have all answers?

    Standing apart from the flow of time, the perspective of duality is retained; and without any attachment, the given situation may be objectively considered.

    The ultimate perspective of Advaita, however, can only be experienced ~ not observed, since observation requires duality.

    Following the analogy, one must step fearlessly into the river of time and truly ‘go with the flow’. And from total immersion in the very moment, there can be no perception of turbulence or flux, and indeed the whole concept of time is transcended!

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    Post Re: Does science have all answers?

    Vedanta describes three sheaths which compose the body:

    1. annamaya kosha ~ the sheath of nourishment or food, forming the sthUla-sharIra (gross frame).
    2. vijñAnamaya (or buddhimaya) kosha ~ the sheath of knowledge or wisdom, forming the sUkshma-sharIra (subtle frame).
    3. Anandamaya kosha ~ the sheath of pleasure or bliss, forming the kAraNa-sharIra (causal frame).

    It is additionally supposed that there are five distinct sheaths investing the soul, with the successive causation of the subtle frame even more subtly qualified:

    1. annamaya kosha.
    2. prANamaya (vital-breath or life) kosha.
    3. vijñAnamaya (intellect) kosha.
    4. manomaya (mind) kosha
    5. Anandamaya kosha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidevo

    The human soul is said to be a triad of atma-buddhi-manas or will-wisdom-activity. The human soul is clothed in seven koshas/sheaths/bodies/principles that fall into a higher triad (atma-buddhi-manas) and a lower quartet (lower manas or kama rupa-astral body-etheric double-physical body). The higher triad atma-buddhi-manas represent the Trinity Shiva-Vishnu-Brahma (in that order) in us. Brahma creates, Vishu pervades and Shiva ensouls. In other words, Shiva is the will, Vishnu the wisdom and Brahma the activity of our souls.
    Your “higher” triad of Atma-buddhi-manas represents the same composition of the subtle frame as given above (i.e. prANa-buddhi-manas).

    The lower quartet of “lower manas-astral body-etheric double-physical body”, however, and also the sum total of seven koshas, is perhaps the view of Theosophy, but it is certainly not a normal understanding of Hinduism.

  5. #15
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    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu
    Dear Saidevo:




    This brings me back to the question I posed in my last thread:

    Why God created this Universe in the first place?

    nirotu
    Who is asking this question? Is he created or uncreated? Please answer after deliberating, if you wish to answer at all.


    Om Namah Shivayya

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    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee
    Who is asking this question? Is he created or uncreated? Please answer after deliberating, if you wish to answer at all.


    Om Namah Shivayya
    Science and its knowledge is always dependent on the knower. Apart from the knower, objectivity of so-called knowledge can never be proven.

    Hinduism places emphasis on knowing the knower first.

    From Gita

    13.12 Adhyaatma jnaana nityatwam tattwa jnaanaartha darshanam;
    Etajjnaanamiti proktam ajnaanam yadato’nyathaa.


    13.12. Constancy in Self-knowledge, perception of the end of true knowledge—this is declared to be knowledge, and what is opposed to it is ignorance.

    13.13 Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;
    Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate.

    13.13 I will declare that which has to be known, knowing which one attains to immortality, the beginningless supreme Brahman, called neither being nor non-being.

    J13.18 Jyotishaamapi tajjyotistamasah paramuchyate;
    Jnaanam jneyam jnaanagamyam hridi sarvasya vishthitam.


    13.18. That, the Light of all lights, is beyond darkness; it is said to be knowledge, the Knowable and the goal of knowledge, seated in the hearts of all.

    13.23 Upadrashtaanumantaa cha bhartaa bhoktaa maheshwarah;
    Paramaatmeti chaapyukto dehe’smin purushah parah.


    13.23. The Supreme Soul in this body is also called the spectator, the permitter, the supporter, the enjoyer, the great Lord and the Supreme Self.



    Knowing the Self can only reveal why God created this Universe in the first place.

  7. #17
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    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee
    [B]
    Knowing the Self can only reveal why God created this Universe in the first place.
    Hence socrates' "Know Thyself" but as usual the West couldn't handle this type of 'knowing' and he was condemned to death for corrupting the masses by telling that they were ignorant of the Truth!
    satay

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    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    Hence socrates' "Know Thyself" but as usual the West couldn't handle this type of 'knowing' and he was condemned to death for corrupting the masses by telling that they were ignorant of the Truth!
    Namaskar Satay Ji,

    Possibly the same happened with Christ?

  9. #19

    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Dear Satay, Atanu:

    Originally Posted by satay
    Hence socrates' "Know Thyself" but as usual the West couldn't handle this type of 'knowing' and he was condemned to death for corrupting the masses by telling that they were ignorant of the Truth!
    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee
    Namaskar Satay Ji,

    Possibly the same happened with Christ?

    While many branches of Hinduism rests on the precept: “know-thyself”, it is not quite clear what they refer to.

    Before, you jump to the conclusion; perhaps it would be helpful if you can clarify the difference between “self” and “non-self”. Even among Sanatana Dharma, traditions have given very lopsided interpretations. Let me take advaita for example in comparison with Buddhism. It’s been said, “Buddhism tries to negate the consciousness by saying there is none in “nirvana”, whereas, Vedanta proposes everything is consciousness upon “moksha”. Thus, in one case, self is engulfed by non-self as in Buddhism and non-self is engulfed by self in Advaita.”

    Are they same? If not, which is correct? Is enlightenment a realization into a non-self (Buddhism) or in to an expanding self (Advaita)?

    On the other hand, western religion rests on knowing the creator and in that the relationship with his creation. Thus, the “self” is only defined in relation to the “non-self” in that sense. Therefore, the knowledge of the creator is essential in discerning this thought. Hence, my earlier question about the creator!!!!

    Blessings,
    nirotu

  10. #20

    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Dear Atanu:

    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee
    Who is asking this question? Is he created or uncreated? Please answer after deliberating, if you wish to answer at all.


    Om Namah Shivayya
    Who is asking this question? Me, nirotu...

    Is he created or uncreated?
    Am I created ? Yes, I am purely an object of His creation!! However, the spirit in me is uncreated, eternally existent. Its a pure energy transformed into material body-me.

    Blessings,
    nirotu

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