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Thread: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

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    Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    I am from Andhra Pradesh. I am a Telugu person. I visit a Venkateswara temple near my house. This temple is built by the Tirumala Tirupathi Devasthanams(TTD). Yesterday I visited it with my friend, and my friend said that in almost every Venkateswara temple he has visited in Andhra Pradesh they always chant the mantras in Tamil, and not in telugu. What is the reason for this? Can anyone explain?

    And even in Venkateswara temple they will not allow one to sound the temple bells. What is the reason?

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    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    Namase Bhargavsai.

    Historically, Tirupati (vEngaDam) was the north border of Tamilnadu. The Venkatesvara Temple at Tirupati was not built by TTD, which was only set up in the year 1933. The history of the temple in shrouded in antiquity. Even the identity of the deity is debated: it is known as Venkatachalapati, a form of VishNu only after Sri Ramanuja identified it as such and established the present worship tradition. It is said that the deity in its 'svarUpa' is a combination of Shiva, VishNu and AmbaaL. Some people even say that it is God SubrahmaNya.

    The Venkatam hill is said to be the sporting hill of Vishnu, brought to earth from Vaikuntam by Garuda, the vehicle of Vishnu, according to the Puranas. The Venkatam hills are also known as Seshachalam, a manifestation of Adi Sesha, the cosmic serpent. The seven hills of Tirupati are said to represent the seven hoods of Sesha.

    The Varaha Purana mentions that Vishnu in the boar form and in the form of Srinivasa manifested himself on the banks of the holy Pushkarini in Tirumalai. It is believed that the celestial entities such as Bhramma and others worship Venkatachalapati and to facilitate their worship, all articles of worship are left open in the sanctum at when the temple is closed at night.

    References to Tiruvenkatam abound in early Tamil literature (Tolkappiam and Silappadikaram) . Explicit reference to the Lord of Tiruvenkatam is found in the works of the early Tamil Saint Poets Poigai Alwar, Bhuthathu Alwar and Pay Alwar as well as in the poems of the later Alwars.

    Here are some links for the interesting details about the temple:
    http://www.templenet.com/Andhra/tirupati.html
    http://www.tirumala.org/maintemple_main.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirumal...teswara_Temple
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    Thank You Saidevo Ji. It was very helpful.

    But there is a legend that Srinivasa turned into the Deity Statue. But you have said that some people refer to it as Shiva, Vishnu and Ambal Swarupa. How can these two be true at the same time?

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    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    Is the God of TiruvengaDam, Shiva, VishNu, AmbaaL or Murugan?
    (Source: The Tamil book TirumalaivAsan yAr? ('Who is the Resident God of Tirumala?') by Sp.Venkataraman)

    The aMsas (features) of several Gods are seen on the image of Sri VenkatesvarA, Lord of the Tirupati hills. Known by many names such as VenkatAchalapati, VenkateshvarA, SrinivAsa, TirumalivAsa and so on, he is a God of every Hindu and a manifestation of the Advaitic, Supreme Truth.

    ShivAMsa

    His shiras (head) has Shiva's aMsas. Locks of hair rolling down in wavy curls. NAgAbharaNas (jewels shaped as snakes) in both hands. Ears sticking out at the sides, with large ear studs on them. And the matted hair that stretches out to his hips. All these features are found on the image of Lord VenkateshvarA.

    The references to Shiva in the Tamil hymns collection TevAram exquisitely match with the descriptions of his above features: 'chaDaiyan' (one with matted hair), 'chaDaimuDi pirAn' (Lord with matted hair), 'nIL chaDaiyOn' (one with long, matted hair), 'puN Ar aravam aNi~ndavan', 'nAga kanganAr' (wearing snake-shaped jewel), 'marungu tAzh chaDaiyar' (with matted hair stretching to the hip), 'kuzhai maRaikkAdinan', 'tODuDaiya cheviyan' (wearing studs on ears)--such epithets match with the appearance of both Shiva and VenkateshvarA.

    Apart from this, his old names and references in the times of the Chola kings bear the ShivAMsa. The 'thiruvEngaDa ulA' was composed to be sung at the time of abhiShekam to VenkateshvarA. The AzhvAr poets have also detailed out the ShivAMsa seen in VenkateshvarA in their songs:

    PEyAzhvAr sings: "The matted hair cascading down with locks of long hair, the blunt axe, chakra, the snake that wraps around and the golden sacred thread--looking at these features, it seems that my Father on the Tirumala has taken an appearance of two forms in harmony."

    BhutatAzhvAr sings: "The sacred God with the golden complexion and tangled matted hair, and the tall, gigantic TirumAl who spans the worlds--even if they both are in two different stages they are one and the same God."

    VishNu AMsa

    VishNu AMsam is seem in VenkateshvarA from his neck to the feet. MAlan (VishNu) is of a tall stature. The sacred thread on his body is seen broken. The Kaustubham and the Vaijayntam are also seen.

    A woman deity is seen on his chest, but she is neither Alarmel Mangai nor Mahalakshmi. This deity has only two hands, whereas Mahalakshmi has four. Moreover, the Mahalakshmi image was not there in Tirumala until Dec 26, 1535, when AchyutarAya MahArAjA order an image of Mahalakshmi to be made and installed there (Stone Inscription no.11-16-54-55). If it is of VishNu aMsam, there must be a woman deity on the chest, so it is found here. And she is a rare deity with two hands, sitting on a lotus. In the VishNu temples, Mahalakshmi SahasranAmam is chanted for Archana, but not here in Tirumala. Only 20 names are chanted during the Archana.

    There is no shangkhu, chakra (conch, disc) on VenkateshvarA's sacred body. They were made in metal in later times and fixed on him. Both his nAmam sign and his shangkhu-chakra are artificial, fitted with at later times.

    Since Lord VenkateshvarA is AjAnubAhu and tall (arms reaching knees), a small vigraham was needed to perform abhiShekam to him. Therefore, in the year 966 CE, a small image identical to the MUlavar was made in silver. To this image, Rani KAdavan Perundevi, wife of a small Pallava king offered some jewels and established a trust to carry out the puja. This happened on Friday, the 8th of June, 966 CE as detailed in the stone inscription no. 8.6.966. Since this small image was made identical to the MUlavar, no shangkhu-chakra is seen on it. There are some imaginary legends churned out to justify the absence of the shangkhu-chakra: that the Lord gave to TonDaimAn Chakravarti his shangkhu-chakra in debit, who did not return them, similar to the story that the Lord has borrowed heavily from Kubhera for his marriage and is still repaying only the interest on the loan!

    Although VishNu AMsa is found on the Lord, it is not a traditional VishNu temple. There is no Mahalakshmi Sannidhi here, nor is there one for Sudarsana AzhvAr. The GarudAzhvAr Sannidhi itself was built only in 1512. The Hanuman statue was installed in 1860. And the temple was built some 300 years ago. The jayanti days of BrAhmaNa sages will be celebrated in other VishNu temples, but not here. Called the First TIrthavAri, a special honour will be done to Brahmins in VishNu temples, but not here.

    The nAmam sign of the Lord here is neither Vadakalai or Tenkalai. Portraits of VenkateshvarA without the nAmam, which are 300 years old, are still there. The tradition of PanchAratra or VaikAnasa puja followed in other VishNu temples are not followed here.

    AmbAL AMsa

    AmbAL Amsa are seen on Lord VenkateshvarA's image, in the Simha LalATam, Yoga MudrA, Bhoga MudrA, Varada MudrA, Kattiya Vilambita MudrA, the meTTi, kolusu, taNDai (toe-rings and anklet) on the feet. All these are the marks of Sri AlarmElu Mangai. The Kattiya Vilambita Hastam belongs only to AmbAL, not to VishNu. The Vilambita Hasta MudrA can be seen on the images of Kanchi Kamakshi, TiruvidaiMarudur Mookambika, Kanyakumari Bhagavati Amman, Tiruvaiyaru Dharmasamvardini, and Mayiladuturai Mookambikai. The image of Bhagavati Amman on the banks of the BharatapapuzhA river, Kerala, has an exact resemblance of Lord VenkateshvarA.

    No one can deny or hide these female AMsas on the Lord's body. We can see them with our own eyes. Certain pujas too resemble those done in AmbAL temples. To VenkateshvarA, abhiShekam is done on Fridays, a 21-cubit sari vastram, abhiShekam with turmeric water, and Brahmotsava during Navaratri are conducted. The abhiShekam is done by pouring out water in a measure of 51 porringers. The number 51 refers to the count of Shakti PiThas.

    Every Friday, bilva leaves, which belong to Shiva, are used for Archana. Now it is used in the Archana done in Margazhi month.

    On the day of ShivarAtri, an utsavam called kShetra PAlikA is done. On that day, the utsava mUrti is adorned with diamond streaks of VibhUti and the deity is taken on the streets on procession.

    The Tirumala temple is an EkamUrti Alayam. There is no Sannidhi for any other deity. But then there is a woman deity known as Tirupati GangammA. The festival called GangammA JAtra is held once in a year. In those days, goats and chicken were sacrified during this time. This Gangamma is a ShivagaNa, Yogini.

    There is also an aitihyam (legendary account) that during the abhiShekam, the Lord opens his third eye. In those days, the ArchakAs agreed with this belief.

    The VishNu image at Srirangam has a streak resembling a beam of light on its forehead, which is the general identity seen in ancient VishNu images. On the sacred body of the Lord of Tirupati or his miniature image, there is no such mark. The broad nAmam was fixed up only since the last 150 or 200 years.

    As against the VishNu SahasranAmam chanted at Archana in other VishNu temples, only the Venkatesha SahasranAmam is chanted here. The first line of this composition is VenkateshAya namaH and the next line is VirUpAkShAya namaH. VirUpAkShA is Shiva's name.

    Lord Venkateshvara is adored in the Shaiva Tirumurais and in Tirumandiram. A sage-poet named TALLapAkkam AnnamaiyyA adored the Lord in his songs as ParaBrahmam and the Ishvara with ShivAMsam and wrote his songs on copper plates. Around 350 years ago, some ArchakAs who did not appreciate it, melted those plates and made them into copper vessles and plates.

    Murugan AMsa

    Certain worship traditions generally found in Murugan temples are found in Tirumala temple. Tonsuring the head is one such tradition, not found in VishNu temples but only in Murugan temples such as Tiruparankundram and Palani. Honey and millet flour are considered even today as an excellent nivedanam for Lord Venkateshvara. These are best nivedana for Murugan too.

    Lord VenkateshvarA is ParaBrahmam

    Therefore, VenkateshvarA aka TiruvEngaDamuDaiyAn has on his form aMsas of Shiva, VishNu and AmbAL. Thus, he is the manifestation of AdiMUlam, spoken as ParaBrahmam (Brahman) in the Upanishads. This is the reason that only in this temple the Taitirya Upanishad is recited. Additionally, onto to this Lord the 27 NakShatra ShAnti is done.

    An interesting inquiry

    The British took under their direct control in the year 1801, the administration of the Tirumala temple. At that time, Tirupati was under the jurisdiction of the Chengalpet (Tamilnadu) colletor. The first collector of that office was Geo Strattan. He set up an inquiry commission and prepared a document before taking charge of the temple. That document was known as 'SavAL-e-JavAb' and is accepted as an important record in all courts of law. The temple Archakas, SthAnAttas, Jiyar, Ayyangar and such authorities appeared before this commission and replied to the questions.

    Commission's Question no.18: What is the real svarUpam of VenkateshvarA?

    Ans: VenkateshvarA is the Supreme Entity.

    Que 30: When there are so many temples in the world, why this temple alone gets so much money and wealth?

    Ans: Adi Sankara came to this temple. He installed a Yantra and an AkarShaNa Chakra in the God's Padma PiTham. This is the reason for the inflow of wealth.

    Que 32: How many nivedanas are performed for him?
    Ans: Every day 60 nivedanas with 60 Artis are performed.

    Que 34: Why everyone is afraid and shows so much of pious devotion for this God?

    Ans: This God shows often that He is there. Some devotees get into trance. Supplications prayed to Him are fulfilled. So the devotees give their offer of money and wealth voluntarily.

    Conclusion

    Thus, Lord VenkateshvarA is the god of every Hindu, not just VaishNavas. He appears as a decorated stone image normally but ardent devotees see many bhAvas (expressions) in that image. He would appear royal at one time; at another would seem to ask if what He gave us was not enough. Looked with devotion, his lips would seem to move. If a man who is walking suddenly stops, one of his feet would seem raised a little. Satya and Dharma are the two feet of the Lord. Of these, the feet of Dharma would seem raised.

    Although he is the TurIya Brahmam, the ParaBrahmam, people don't discuss AtmA, JIvAtmA or ParamAtmA with him; they discuss only the problems in their worldly life. He listens and solves their problems. And the devotees in gratitude pay him back. His devotees include powerful politicians and business tycoons and the ordinary, poor people.

    Among the British, Sir Thomas Munro, Colonel Mckenzie and Geo Strattan were his staunch devotees. Colonel Mckenzie, who was British India's First Surveyor General, compiled a book of devotees experiences with Lord VenkateshvarA, which is over 150 years old. As an example from that collection, a British soldier named Levellian of the 33rd Regiment of the British troop of cannoneers who were camping in a village named Thakkolam in the year 1781, was injured heavily in the war and prayed to Lord VenkateshvarA for recovery. After he got well, he offered his debit to the Lord through a Hindu sipoy.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    Brilliant Answer Saidevo Ji. I have gained so much Jnana from your post. Thank You.

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    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    Lot of thanks for the information. GOD is ONE

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    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.



    || Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevaya ||


    vyaNkatesho vAsudevo pradyumna amita vikrama
    sankarSaNa aniruddhascha sheshAdri-patir eva cha
    janArdanah: padmanAbhah: vyankatAchala vAsinah:
    srushtikartA jagannAtho mAdhavo bhaktavatsalah:

    govindo gopatih: krushNah keshavo garuda-dhvaja
    varAho vAmanaschaiva nArAyana adhokshaja
    shridharah: puNdarIkAkshah: sarva deva stuto harih:
    shrinRsiMho mhAsiMho sUtrakAra purAtana

    ramAnAtho mahAbhartA madhurah: purushottamah:
    cholaputra priya shAnto bramhAdInAmvara-pradah:
    shrinidhi sarvabhUtAnAm bhayakrut bhayanAshanah:
    shri-rAmo rAma bhadrascha bhava bandhaka mochaka

    bhUtAvAsah: girAvAsah: shrinivAsah: shriyah-patih:
    achyutAtanta govindo vishNurvyankatanAyaka

    sarva devaika sharaNam sarva devaika daivatam
    samastha deva kavacham sarva deva shikhAmaNi

    itidam kIrtitam yasya vishNur amita tejasah:
    trikAleya pathe nityam pApam tasya na vidyate

    Shri KrushNa-arpaNamastu ||


    - Shri Shri VyaNkatesh Stotra

    praNAm
    Last edited by smaranam; 20 May 2011 at 11:06 PM. Reason: vyaNkatesh
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    The most popular Kirtan from Venkateswara temple has been venkateswara suprabhatam all along (please google it), radios all over andhra blare the song every morning and it is a telugu poem. Subba Laxmi (god bless her) who initially recorded telugu version also much later sang the same in Tamil language. Tamil version was written very recently. The deity is worshipped more or less equally by both linguistic communities, it is just that we telugus are darned lucky that Tirupati was included in andhra state.Huge number of pujaris hail from Tamil nadu even today. It is not out of context to mention king Krishnadeva Raya, who has more Telugu lineage than Kannada one, had developed Tirumala in a big way. As a mark of respect his statue was installed prominently in the temple vicinity.

  9. #9

    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    Dear Saidevo

    thanks a 101 times for the useful posts u made..
    My swami has so many forms, he knows all languages, he is supreme and the swami of 36000 universe
    Om namo venkatesaya

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    Re: Question about Venkateswara Temples.

    Vannakkam: Just another question ... What is the name of the branch of Vaishnava that Venkateswara worship belongs to? I've been to a couple here now, (Chicago, Pittsburgh) and am curious. Pretty sure its not Gaudiya. It feels quite different from ISKCON, yet similar in a way too.

    Aum Namasivaya

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