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Thread: Advaita vs. Shaivism vs. Vishishtadvaita

  1. #1

    Advaita vs. Shaivism vs. Vishishtadvaita

    Since the main 2 sects of Tantra Yoga came up w/ those and formed into Hinduism(advaita and Shaivism, obviously Vishishtadvaita was formed by the mixture of advaita and Vaishnavism)....so lets compare and contrast.

    In Advaita....this is written, Jagat (the world) is not different from Brahman; however Brahman is different from Jagat" ...what does it mean?

    They both agree that Universe is made up of god...however, is god more than just universe?

    I know Shaivism is established in South India, where are the others located?

    I wouldn't really count the difference btw. god names...b/c it is just a diff. btw names....since their true nature is unmanifested truth, it is us who gives them an identity.

    Thanks.

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    Re: Advaita vs. Shaivism vs. Vishishtadvaita

    Pranamas,

    Quote Originally Posted by skhandelwal View Post
    Since the main 2 sects of Tantra Yoga came up w/ those and formed into Hinduism(advaita and Shaivism, obviously Vishishtadvaita was formed by the mixture of advaita and Vaishnavism)....so lets compare and contrast.

    In Advaita....this is written, Jagat (the world) is not different from Brahman; however Brahman is different from Jagat" ...what does it mean?
    In Advaita, jagat and Brahman have 'unspecified' identity. That is they are one and the same, but the exact relationship is inexplicable in words. The best way to say is that Brahman appears as the jagat by the power of mAyA, even though Brahman is ever unchanging . It is not an illusion strictly, but illusion is a word you can use in the absence of another good terminology.

    Jagat is different from Brahman because jagat is ever changing. Brahman is not. Jagat is same as Brahman - because Jagat is a dependent reality that has no existance apart from Brahman. If Brahman were to commit suicide ( pardon this heresy please, could not find a better way to explain) Jagat will also cease to exist. This dependency is the identity between Brahman and jagat.




    Quote Originally Posted by shankdelwal
    They both agree that Universe is made up of god...however, is god more than just universe?
    I beleive Vishishtadvaita is only a form of Advaita. Infact, in his commentary on the Brahmasutras, Ramanujacharya says that, the consciousness of the enlightened soul is of the form - 'I am Brahman, with no divisions'. But Ramanujacharya was propounding a school of Bhakti where bheda was very much essential, so he mixed philosophy with practice of religion. The result is Vishishtadvaita, which falls midway between Dvaita ( which is absolute dualty) and Advaita.

    Vishsitadvaita advocates that the Universe is Real, but has Brahman as the material cause. According to Vishsitadvaita, God exists outside of the Universe in his causal state, while the universe is the effected state of Brahman where dualty is present. If this Universe of Vishsitadvaita were to be accorded a lesser degree of reality, then Vishishtadvaita and Advaita would have no differences.



    I know Shaivism is established in South India, where are the others located?
    What about Kashmiri Shaivism and schools like Paradvaita? Shaivism is one of the oldest living faith in India. It is beleived that it was prevalent even in the Indus Valley Civilization.

    I wouldn't really count the difference btw. god names...b/c it is just a diff. btw names....since their true nature is unmanifested truth, it is us who gives them an identity.

    Thanks.
    God is like pure space or air, endless, without shape or form or qualities. All forms , shapes and qualities to God are conceptions of the mind. When a devotee concieves of God in a specific manner, the supreme Lord takes such a form to bless the devotee. Just like water assumes shape only when poured into a vessel, Brahman assumes a form only when conceived by the mind. Otherwise, Brahman has no form or any descriptions, and is beyond all words and forms.

    Best wishes,
    RL

  3. #3

    Re: Advaita vs. Shaivism vs. Vishishtadvaita

    Namaste RL,

    And a very Interesting post! Thank you for the information.

    ..."Vishsitadvaita advocates that the Universe is Real, but has Brahman as the material cause. According to Vishsitadvaita, God exists outside of the Universe in his causal state, while the universe is the effected state of Brahman where dualty is present" ...

    Om

  4. #4

    Re: Advaita vs. Shaivism vs. Vishishtadvaita

    "Nishvasit masya Vedaha"

    He BREATHED.

    "Ahasya mahato bhutasya nichvatimetat rg vedo,yajur veda,sama vedotharva vedah.."

    The Four vedas were manifested in His BREATH.

    "Sa icchat" -Aitereya upanishad 1.1.

    He THOUGHT.

    ***


    "Sa Icchanchakre." - Prashnopanishad 6.3

    "Tad Icchat." -Chadogya Upanishad 6.2.3.

    "Sa aizcchat." - Brhadaranyako Upanishad.

    "So Kaamayat" Taitereya upanishad 2.6

    He had a DESIRE.

    ***

    "Smitam" He smiled.


    "Vikcchittam" He Observed.



    ***

    "Dva dasha vadu bhaya vidho badarayano ta" Brahm Sutra 4.4.12

    "Sa yada sa sharira tam sankalpa yati
    tadasa shariro bhavati
    yada tva shariratam
    tada tva shariraha
    satya sankalpatvat
    sankalpa vyatyityacca"

    - SHAANKAR Bhasya.


    Meaning of Shaankar bhashya : Brahm is Formless as well as with an eternal Form.He mainfests these Two forms from beginningless time with His energy of "Satya Sankalpa".

    Note that Satya Sankalpa is the energy manifested ONLY is Saguna,Sakar,Savishesh Brahm Sri Krsna.
    Satya Sankalpa ...The possessor of this energy Immediately implies the Supreme Person.For Only a PERSONALITY exhibits the energy or working out of a 'sankalpa'/'desire'.

    Thus Brahm is understood to be a PERSONALITY who has infinite energies.




    "....The Divine Purusha with a thousand heads, eyes, feet and arms (Virat-purusha),
    He entered Brahma Himself.He created seven mental sons – they created the seven pro-creators...."
    1-6. Subala Upanishad.

    ***
    ....from that Great Purusha's forehead,was created Rudra (of anger)...

    -Subala Upanishad.

    ***

    "At the end, becoming Vaisvanara (fire), He destroys all creatures – earth enters into water, water into fire, fire into air, air into ether, ether into sense organs, they into subtle elements, they into Prakriti, Prakriti into Mahat, Mahat into Avyakta, Avyakta into Akshara, Akshara into Tamas,Tamas in that Primeval Godhead/Mahapurusha.This is the process of Mahapralaya ."

    - Subala Upanishad


    ***


    "The UNBORN, alone, immortal Being inside the body(inside everyone's body as paramatma different from aatma), whose body is the Earth,Who moves inside water, Who moves inside fire,Who moves inside Air,Who moves inside the Aakash,so also inside Mind, Intellect, Ego,Chitta, Avyakta (unmanifest), Akshara (imperishable), Death – He sits within everything,He is the Sinless One,He is the Supersoul,Divine Narayana."


    -Subala Upanishad 4.1

    ***



    Adityas, Rudras, Maruts, Vasus, Asvins, Rik, Yajus, Sama, Mantras, Agni, oblation – all originate from Him, Narayana.

    Subala Upanishad 3.4

    ***



    "All this exists from Purusha only – the past and the future – that high place of Vishnu – the sages look upon it always.The sages without mental conflict(CONTROL OVER MIND/complete purification of the mind) enhance its glory."-

    - Subala Upanishad 3.7



    One would think Ramanuja was firmly established in his siddhanta whereas Shankaraharya seemed to be confused as is apparent by his sudden change of tone in the commentary on the Brahm sutras.

    The 10 sutras where Veda Vyasa establishes that Jeevatma is anu-atomic-In the commentary of these sutras,Shankaracharya accepted that Jeevatma is atomic-anu-limited but he suddenly changed his views in the next sutra.

    This is only affirms the Vaishnava view that mayavada is a farce(atleast for the vaishnavas.)

  5. #5

    Smile Re: Advaita vs. Shaivism vs. Vishishtadvaita

    I now understand that many of the Vaishnavas rely on scripture or rather the interpretation of the scripture to justify and establish their own positions. But the problem is that scriptures contain many thing for example in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad the Divine Viraj created a woman and in order to commune with her he goes after her, she is running away from him she takes the form of a cow , he take the form of a bull and in this way she takes many animal forms he also takes the males forms of those animals and as a result we have creation. I do not know what interpretation such stories can be given.

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