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Thread: What Advaita can offer ...?

  1. #11
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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    Vannakkam Anirudh: Just so you know, I'm also one who once struggled with the practicality of advaita, and therefore, am no advaitin. So you're not alone.

    Personally, I've learned to ignore it as 'high-falutin' philosophy, and focus more on day to day living scriptures like the Tirukkural. It's still there in the back of my mind as reality, ultimately, though. But only in the back of my mind, not the forefront.

    I don't think we're alone either.

    Aum Namasivaya

  2. #12

    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post

    If Self Realization is all about experiencing the truth that there is no difference between my real identity and Bhagwaan, then why do I need God to experience the God in me.

    I can simply replace my friend Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu with my selfie and do a mangala aarathi. I might sound arrogant but this is legally correct with in the framework of Advaita. Isn't it?

    It reminds my younger days as an aethist.
    Namaste. I'm offering my opinion in this matter.

    You ask "why do I need God to experience the God in me", you are reffering to two aspects of God, right? Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman (as atman) respectively.

    You have to be careful to not confount the "rules" of the Vyavaharika state with the being-ness of the Paramarthika state.

    Yes, theoretically you could worship yourself instead of Rama Chandra because both are the same Self. Likewise, you could drink poison instead of water because everything is Brahaman anyways.

    The problem is, as long as the soul is trapped in Maya, it is, for all practical purposes subject to the rules of this state. Your consciousness has not realized entirely, both consciously and inconsciously and supraconsciously the sameness of water and poison. That's why you get sick when you take one and is satisfied with the other.

    The same reasoning can be applied to spiritual practice. As long as you have not yet realized and integrated FULLY the Paramarthika truth that you and Rama are the same Self, the worship of both would wield different results.

    If eventually you reach the state of non-duality in your practice, that kind of self-worship could happen. In fact, it does happen in the life of many Saints, like Sri Ramakrishna and Ma Anandamayi.

    Pranams.

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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Devotee ji

    I can simply replace my friend Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu with my selfie and do a mangala aarathi. I might sound arrogant but this is legally correct with in the framework of Advaita. Isn't it?

    It reminds my younger days as an aethist.
    Namaste aniruddh
    Do you know how Ramachandra looks like? I mean you worship some statue created by a painter or a sculptor right? Even ramachandras idols look different in different temples. show me two statues of him that look exactly alike? LIKE TWINS? so which statue represents the real sri rama? Have you seen Sri rama or did the sculptor that made his statue see him? You are anyway worshipping some face created by the imagination of the sculptor. If the same sculptor makes a ramachandra with your face many people would worship it without any problem as long as your face is painted in blue and have a vishnu tilak attached. so instead of worshipping a sculptors imagination it is better you worship your self which is non different from Rama and tell me the results.

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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Yajvan ji
    How ever, I didn't understand certain portion of your reply. Could you be kind enough to explain those quoted texts especially the yoga part and the union.
    established (or steadfast) in yoga ( union) perform actions (karma).

    It suggests how this union is viewed and how sublime this union may blossom into.
    Let me see if I can help...
    Before we start, one needs to be aware that knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. I mention this because it helps to explain the different schools of thought that reside inside of sanātana dharma ( some prefer calling it ārṣa¹ dharma ). That is, a particular school such advaita or say the śāṁkhya school or the yoga school may be more aligned to a particular group of people verses another group. And for that matter, a person can grow or expand from one school into another school – it is quite flexiable. Yet the initial ~attraction~ to a school is predicated on a person’s level of awareness or comprehension.

    So, with that in mind, I looked to a passage from the bhāgavad gītā that in my opinion is aligned to many-many schools and is spoken with authority i.e. kṛṣṇa-ji (48th verse, yogasthaḥ kuru karmānī- established (or steadfast) in yoga ( union) perform actions (karma)).
    Now that said, the crux of what kṛṣṇa-ji offers us is both knowledge based, instructional, and practical. It also requires the native to experience this level of unfoldment to realize the value therein. That is, when an individual is no longer individual, but aligned to the Supreme in full ( known as established in yoga or yogasthaḥ ) all one’s actions are now the extension of the Supreme’s actions. All actions will bear the maximum results – not only for that person, but for the community, nation, and the world. They are properly aligned with universal dharma. One becomes the walking exponent of the Supreme. By default, the actions are whole in nature – they are not driven by the small-small (au) egocentric person that only looks for personal gain. One becomes the exponent of Reality within the human frame.
    One’s reference point is not that of billy, yajvan, tommy, sally, joey, ashcana ,etc. that are experiencing being limited, but that of their own Self that is none other then the Supreme within and without us.

    Now back to all the schools ( I count 16)… these schools explain this relationship and how far this relationship may extend. That is why one needs to have broad vision and look across all the schools as much as comfortable. To have a broad base, but also (and in concert with this looking) one needs to come in contact with their true nature, their
    true Being that is not outside of one’ s own purview. It is NOT something one gains, but what one re-establishes again.

    This is where advaita comes in – it says you are this (Supreme) already. That is the core teaching, you are that , so says our upaniṣads. For some people they think these are flowery words that are to be repeated as being ‘in the know’. But being ‘in the know’ is speaking from direct personal experience. And this is encouraged in all schools.

    Hence if for some reason the adviata approach causes some consternation, just re-evaluate and think maybe this is not my entry point into this massive ocean of knowledge; then choose accordingly. There are many roads that lead to Rome.

    iti śivaṁ


    1. ārṣa = relating or belonging to or derived from ṛṣi-s or seers of truth, of reality.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    Namaste Anirudh,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    If Self Realization is all about experiencing the truth that there is no difference between my real identity and Bhagwaan, then why do I need God to experience the God in me.

    I can simply replace my friend Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu with my selfie and do a mangala aarathi. I might sound arrogant but this is legally correct with in the framework of Advaita. Isn't it?
    This is a very natural question arising in "our minds". Why ? Because Mind is designed and conditioned in a manner which doesn't accept that reality can act simultaneously at two different planes of existence. The one is Existence at Absolute level and the other is existence at the relative level. However, if you take everyday phenomena which all of us would accept, it would be clear that things can act at different levels ... even the relative existence can act as real. What is poison for us and what is healthy food ? At atomic level, both are nothing but quarks/anti-quarks or a mixture of various types of electromagnetic waves vibrating at different frequencies. The basic substance in both poison and food is same and yet they act differently on our body. Again, a solid wall in front of us is actually 99.999 % space and there should be no problem for anything to pass through it because of huge space even in small volume of matter. And still in its relative existence it acts as wall and not space. Can we easily believe that light is both particle and wave simultaneously ? It defies our experience. However, now, science has come to such a level that light can be liquefied.

    What do I want to say with all these examples ? When you "reach" absolute state, there is no God or there is God alone. So, there is no question of anyone acting as worshipper named Anirudh, any action possible like worship and any object of worship like God. That is the absolute reality. However, it acts at relative level in a different way. At relative level of existence, there is Anirudh who is a human being with conditioned consciousness and there is Pure Consciousness acting in perceived duality as God.

    So, your worshipping your own selfie is flawed at both levels. At the Absolute level, there is no worshipper left and there is no object of worship. At the relative level, when Anirudh exists, God also exists which is not Anirudh. Anirudh worshipping Anirudh is ridiculous.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    Namaste Devotee ji,
    Agreed Anirudh worshiping Anirudh is weird. If Anirudh realizes, there is no difference between the souls* of Anirudh and Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu it is fine. But unfortunately Bin Laden too has the same soul. Bin Laden has no chance of realizing it, but assume Anirudh has realize it. We can apply the poisonous snake example while dealing Bin Laden at the relative level. But can he be equated with Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu at the Absolute level? Then what happens to the Karma Theory?

    Should we say until two parties/entities have not realized, they cant be compared with Bhagwaan.

    There is one more problem I observe. If we want to see things in two different levels, then at the relative level we can even justify non vegetarian food consumption.

    I am going give myself some more time to get to root.

    I sincerely apologize if any one is disturbed with my examples, i felt they were necessary to drive home the point.

    souls* I meant the correct identity in this context.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Anirudh,
    ......
    . At the Absolute level, there is no worshipper left and there is no object of worship. At the relative level, when Anirudh exists, God also exists which is not Anirudh. Anirudh worshipping Anirudh is ridiculous.

    OM
    Anirudh...

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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    Namaste Yajvan ji

    Have three personal reasons for my interest in Advaita. I will PM you about it. But trust me, I have no intention to discredit Advaita or argue .

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    Hence if for some reason the adviata approach causes some consternation, just re-evaluate and think maybe this is not my entry point into this massive ocean of knowledge; then choose accordingly. There are many roads that lead to Rome.

    iti śiva�


    1. �rṣa = relating or belonging to or derived from ṛṣi-s or seers of truth, of reality.
    Anirudh...

  8. #18
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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Yajvan ji

    But trust me, I have no intention to discredit Advaita or argue .
    I can see you have a genuine interest. My point for your consideration was not from the point of view of any negativity pointed to the advaita approach. It is all about comfort. If this approach brings more confusion or consternation then comfort, then there are other vehicles. Some people get to Rome by bus, train, car or by walking. It is wise person that knows which vehicle one should start with.

    It is also the wise person that asks along the way. Is my course of progress (to Rome) this way ? The people on HDF may or may not help. Do not depend on HDF solely for this knowledge (including and especially me). Face-to-face talking with people that are knowledgeable is considered best.


    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam Anirudh: Just so you know, I'm also one who once struggled with the practicality of advaita, and therefore, am no advaitin. So you're not alone.

    Personally, I've learned to ignore it as 'high-falutin' philosophy, and focus more on day to day living scriptures like the Tirukkural. It's still there in the back of my mind as reality, ultimately, though. But only in the back of my mind, not the forefront.

    I don't think we're alone either.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Namaste

    Thanks for the message.

    I am studying Advaita for few specific reasons.

    I will share my views in the process.
    Anirudh...

  10. #20
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    Re: What Advaita can offer ...?

    Namaste Anirudh,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    If Anirudh realizes, there is no difference between the souls* of Anirudh and Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu it is fine. But unfortunately Bin Laden too has the same soul. Bin Laden has no chance of realizing it, but assume Anirudh has realize it. We can apply the poisonous snake example while dealing Bin Laden at the relative level. But can he be equated with Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu at the Absolute level? Then what happens to the Karma Theory?
    Sri Ramchandra Prabhu, Anirudh, Snake and Bin Laden are all the same One reality exhibiting Itself differently at relative plane of existence. Therefore, there is no doubt that Bin Laden is also the same at the Absolute level. See, Karma theory applies only at relative plane of existence and not at the Absolute level. That is why Lord Krishna says in Bhagwad Gita, "Actually all the actions are performed by three gunas in Prakriti but Jeeva due to its AhamkAr assumes that it is the doer (and therefore gets bound by Karma)" --- BG 3.27. That is why on Self-realisation no Karma is left and Lord Krishna says, "There is no better purifier than JnAna" and also "As blazing fire turns fire-wood to ashes, JnAna turns all Karmas to ashes". Once you know that you are Infinite pure, untainted consciousness, there is no doer, there is no ahamkaar of doing and therefore all Karmas are reduced to ashes.

    Should we say until two parties/entities have not realized, they cant be compared with Bhagwaan.
    Yes.

    If we want to see things in two different levels, then at the relative level we can even justify non vegetarian food consumption.
    Liking of food is according to one's gunas (refer Bhagwad Gita). SAtvik, RAjasic and TAmsic people like food according to their gunas. It is not a matter of what is justified or not justified, you will act as per your gunas and karmas. If you are born in TundrAs and in winter you can't get anything except meat of reindeer then what will you do ? Karmas are accrued not by actions themselves but by the intentions behind a certain act. That is why Lord Krishna says that indulging in worldly actions without attachment doesn't bind a person.

    If vegetarian food is consumed due to attachment towards food's taste, you will accrue Karma. If you kill out of hatred, own selfishness etc. you are bound by Karma of killing. If you have to kill as per your dharma, no karma accrues to you. That is why Arjuna is advised to fight without attachment so that the sins of killing his own near and dear ones including his own teacher does not accrue to him.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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