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Thread: Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

  1. #1
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    Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

    Namaste all

    Here I would like to express some doubts regarding the Policy of moderating posts at our HDF.
    I think it's important for all of our members and I would like that we all together discuss this important issue. I would like the members of our HDF community to participate in the discussion as well as our moderators.

    I'll try to be quite specific.
    A few days ago I sent a PM message to Satay as follows:

    Namaste Satay

    I noticed in the "Is Krishna Brahman?" thread one part of my post #3 is deleted:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=13093

    "The other gods such as Agni, Indra, Brahma, Rudra, Vayu, Varuna, etc, are not Brahman or The Supreme which means that they are not the supreme God, but Lord Krishna is supreme God."

    I would like to know why this part of my post is deleted. That part is completely in line with the philosophy of Vaishnavas and specifically in accordance with the teachings of the Gaudiya Vaishnavas or Hare Krishna (ISKCON) and the name of the forum is exactly "Hare Krishna (ISKCON)"!
    Satay sent a reply:

    namaste,
    sentiments of other hindus were hurt. would you like me to delete your whole post?
    Now, I must admit that I'm startled with this. How, then, I'm supposed to formulate my posts?!
    I mean if some of our members' feelings get hurt, then what should I do? I can not change the Vaishnava philosophy and teachings which have been given to us by our acaryas! These teachings are as they are, and they are also part of the Hindu dharma and are followed by and appreciated by one part of the Hindu community. I can not change these teachings, so that when I say that some gods are not the Supreme, or when I say that some of the gods are "demigods" then it is so because our acaryas told us so. If some of our members' feelings get hurt by this then they should not read my posts! It is the only solution and the only advice I can give.

    We live in the world where everyone cares only for his own feelings. But what about the feelings of others? Please see this:

    yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ
    brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ
    samatvenaiva vīkṣeta
    sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam

    yaḥ -- any person who; tu -- however; nārāyaṇam -- the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of such demigods as Brahmā and Śiva; devam -- the Lord; brahma -- Lord Brahmā; rudra -- Lord Śiva; ādi -- and others; daivataiḥ -- with such demigods; samatvena -- on an equal level; eva -- certainly; vīkṣeta -- observes; saḥ -- such a person; pāṣaṇḍī -- pāsaṇḍī; bhavet -- must be; dhruvam -- certainly.

    "A person who considers demigods like Brahmā and Śiva to be on an equal level with Nārāyaṇa is to be considered an offender, or pāṣaṇḍī." (Padma Purana)

    Here in this verse the word pāṣaṇḍī is applied, and means "atheist, a heretic".
    Note: This is a verse from the Padma Purana quoted by early Gaudiya Vaishnava acaryas in the 16th century such as Sanatana Gosvami in his Hari-bhakti-vilāsa.

    Here is an excerpt from one of Srila Prabhupada's lessons:

    Pāṣaṇḍī means nonfaithful, unfaithful, unbeliever.
    Lecture on BG 9.23-24 -- New York, December 10, 1966:

    So Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā are considered to be the most powerful demigods, but still, it is prohibited that one should not think of them as equal to the Supreme Lord. It is strictly prohibited in Vaiṣṇava Purāṇas. It is said like this: yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devam...

    yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ
    brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ
    samatvenaiva vīkṣeta
    sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam
    (Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 18.115 and 116)

    "Any person who keeps on the same level demigods like Brahmā-Rudra" -- that means Brahmā and Lord Śiva -- "with Nārāyaṇa" --Nārāyaṇa is the Supreme Lord -- yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ... They are very big, big demigods, but even they cannot be placed on the equal level of Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Lord. Yas tu samatvena vīkṣeta: Anyone says that "To me everyone is the same, he is pāṣaṇḍī." He is pāṣaṇḍī means nonfaithful, unfaithful, unbeliever.

    So, as I said we live in the world where everyone cares only for his own feelings. Does anyone cares about the Lord Vishnu's (Narayana) feelings, see above quote from the Padma Purana? Does anyone think that His feelings will be hurt if we believe that all the gods are the Supreme?


    regards

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    Re: Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

    Vannakkam:

    I've suggested this before, but not for awhile. It really isn't that hard to set up a forum like this. I'm sure you can find some help if you ask. Then you can be the moderator, and allow whomever and whatever you wish. That way you're in control.

    In repeated suggestions to do this, nobody ever has. I think it would be great, as some of the members who have left would get to start over, sort of.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam:

    I've suggested this before, but not for awhile. It really isn't that hard to set up a forum like this. I'm sure you can find some help if you ask. Then you can be the moderator, and allow whomever and whatever you wish. That way you're in control.

    In repeated suggestions to do this, nobody ever has. I think it would be great, as some of the members who have left would get to start over, sort of.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Sorry, I was not able to catch your point. What do you mean by that?


    regards

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    Re: Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

    Pranam

    Your answer offered in that thread was nothing sort of insulting, that was not even the question asked. This is a Hindu forum, sub forum not withstanding.


    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by brahma jijnasa View Post
    Namaste


    Sorry, I was not able to catch your point. What do you mean by that?


    regards
    Vannakkam: If you don't like the moderation at HDF, please go start your own forum. It's not that hard.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

    Namaste BJ ji,

    Have you heard of the popular saying, "Satyam Bruyaat Priyam Bruyaat"? When speaking the truth, of ultimate importance is sweetness in speech. Harshness in speaking the truth (that is, whatever might be your Acharyas giving to you) should be avoided.

    Secondly, I would be most unhappy if someone, as per their Acharya's giving to them, declares Sriman Narayana to be 'demigod'. I hope this resonates with you.

    Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat!

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  7. #7

    Re: Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

    Namaste,

    "The other gods such as Agni, Indra, Brahma, Rudra, Vayu, Varuna, etc, are not Brahman or The Supreme which means that they are not the supreme God, but Lord Krishna is supreme God."
    One should keep to praising his own Ishta, but not at the cost of (disparaging) other devata-s. This rule is simple enough, and the mod action exemplifies that.

    Secondly, to say something definite about gods such as Agni, Varuna etc, the person or the sect in question should have a proper awareness regarding who these Devatā-s are. Unfortunately, that is also not the case with the sect in question.

    Thirdly, not everyone here regards Brahm as the supreme. When you say Ma Kali is not Brahm, it only makes me happier. Similarly in case of Vishnu, Agni, Indra, Varuna, etc.

    Thirdly, calling Shri Vishnu as "nArAyaNa" is in my eyes (and in others) a serious disrespect to Shri Vishnu, Narayana is a proper name of Surya, a Vedic god. Narayana as epithet of Shri Vishnu, no problems, but as a proper name itself is a huge denigration of Shri Vishnu and the Vedic Dharma.

    There could be many such issues that can be further enumerated here, but the point is the said sect, or any sect (especially of recent origins), may not be water-tight in its outlook and systems, and should do well to remember that while it still operates within Arya traditions (yes we do accept them) it cannot go directly against the tenets of Hinduism -even within their own safe walls. The only other scenario is to claim themselves as a separate (non-Vedic) religion, and in that case here on HDF the other posters will go on analysing the said sect as "the other" in Indic traditions, e.g. Buddhism, Jainism, even Indian Cristianity, and Indian Islam, etc.

    To say it in a few word, "Arya traditions are dynamic, living organisms, where the final word is never yet said, so the rules are not those set in the stone, and the best that we can do in such ever changing, evolving scenario is to be respectful of each other, while growing and nourishing our own respective traditions."



    Mother Aditi is watching. The war between intelligence and cleverness.

    KT
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

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    Re: Some doubts regarding the HDF's Policy

    Namaste Prabhu

    Quote Originally Posted by brahma jijnasa View Post
    Namaste all

    Here I would like to express some doubts regarding the Policy of moderating posts at our HDF.
    regards
    Your thread and this post is against HDF rules, specifically rule 7 under specific requirements.

    Please read the forum rules and let me know if you have any specific question about them. You and all members have agreed to abide by them at the time of registration.

    I am putting you back on moderation queue. This will give you time to understand the rules and policies of the forum.

    Thank you.
    satay

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