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Thread: America - Perception vs Reality

  1. #11
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    Re: America - Perception vs Reality

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    The majority of voters make bad decisions.
    The majority of voters are insane?
    Letting everyone vote is a bad idea?
    The democratic form of Govt. is severely flawed and this process of electing a Govt. by the majority should be abolished?
    And, what should replace that process?

    Pranam.

  2. #12

    Re: America - Perception vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,

    The majority of voters are insane?
    Letting everyone vote is a bad idea?
    The democratic form of Govt. is severely flawed and this process of electing a Govt. by the majority should be abolished?
    And, what should replace that process?

    Pranam.
    Making bad decisions isn't the same as being insane. Nor am I suggesting that people shouldn't vote. I am merely noting a very frank observation that voters make bad decisions. This is because, democracy, in order to function properly, requires that the voters be well-informed. Specifically, they must understand the concept of natural law, and of how the nation's laws are supposed to reflect natural law, and finally of the compatibility or lack thereof of new laws with core natural laws upon which a constitutional democracy is supposed to be based. Without this very critical point, a democracy, even one theoretically governed by a constitution spelling out restrictions on government power, merely degenerates into "tyranny by the majority." In such a situation, the government can and does oppress people, but only with the consent of the majority. Even the majority may not realize that they are being oppressed, caught up as they are in the partisan spirit that their problems were caused by the Other Party, and that in order to stop the machinations of the Other Party, they must instead vote for Their Party, all the while remaining oblivious to the excesses of Their Party and its culpability in the current problems.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  3. #13
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    Re: America - Perception vs Reality

    Namaste,

    A couple of words on the government as I do follow US govt a bit. US govt is like any other govt. I think the people that get elected in fact in any govt initially have good intentions and they really do want to and believe that they can make a change but the 'system' does not let them do what they would really like to. There is too much red tape in governments. Although I am not in political office but I have seen how govt works from a very close proximity. I know of such people that had good intentions and went into politics to make real change but they were unable to because of the system in place.
    satay

  4. #14
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    Re: America - Perception vs Reality

    Namaste,

    The Southern hospitality....A very brutal dashcam video!

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/17/us/ala...ase/index.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reu...man-India.html

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 18 February 2015 at 09:23 AM.

  5. #15
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    Re: America - Perception vs Reality

    Hari Om

    Namaste,

    Believerji, for what gentleman and family experienced, no words that possess. Many, many years ago when used pay phones, called a far away monastery about conflict with profession was in, much like with police profession. Distraught how could continue in profession with beliefs and by Theravada Monk, was convinced that one on this path was exactly who needed to be in this profession. Do think that regardless of country, SD path can make all difference.

    Satay, what you share in above post, named the Brubaker effect. Do not know if hip to movie, but in real life, man who wishes to do right in political arena and not be corrupted, becomes chicken farmer and squished. By my experiences, Brubakers are rare. Then there are those who survive, but due to real and perceived threats, compromise and rationalize these compromises to some degree. And agonize. These two have much affection for without effort.

    Then there are for simplicities sake, the third group. They still rationalize is as our want, but do so with heavy fetters and seemingly effortlessly. They pursue status and temporary things, at cost to many.

    Thanks.

    Om Namah Shivaya

    FFTW

  6. #16
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    Follow Up

    Namaste,

    Follow up to the brutal treatment of an old Indian man few months back, at the hands of Huntsville, Alabama police.

    http://www.indiawest.com/news/global...m_medium=email

    Pranam.

  7. #17

    Re: Follow Up

    Namaste,

    My Children just went to America in California, they spent 6 weeks with my sister. They loved it, they said how friendly everyone was, how people say Hi when just walking down the street, this is in stark contrast to the UK where people are more reserved. I too have been to America twice, never had a problem with anyone, oh maybe one, but that can happen anywhere. There are also no go areas in America, so its good to not be Naive.

    I think at the moment the American Police are getting a hard time over the internet, many of it may well be deserved, but in general I think America is a good country, just like many countries they have bad governments and leaders.

    The way some Americans come across over the internet is sometimes a problem, especially with there free will of use of some certain words But I blame TV music and Movies for this.

  8. #18

    Re: Follow Up

    A truly hope people see the funny side of this. If not then moderators please remove

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6APh7ov4rM

  9. #19
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    Re: Follow Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Follow up to the brutal treatment of an old Indian man few months back, at the hands of Huntsville, Alabama police.

    http://www.indiawest.com/news/global...m_medium=email

    Pranam.
    Namaste Believer ji,

    Thank you for the update. I am very glad he has support and good care, and what appears to be a good legal team. I hope he does make a full recovery, and I hope he wins his suit - I agree it's clearly another case of discrimination. Not to diminish the horribleness of what happened to him in any way, but do consider the region this happened. Alabama... This is some of the deepest bible-belt territory in the US. People there still get chased off state borders by posses of "Good Ol' Boys" in pick-ups carrying shotguns, just for looking at someone sideways. I knew someone who had her yard defaced several times a week and was stared at when she went to get her mail once the local neighborhood realized she wasn't Christian. If you aren't white, and Baptist or Evangelical, Alabama is definitely not the place to live for as close as once can get to fair treatment in the US. Seriously. Why anyone would choose to live there is beyond me.

    The Northeast is better, but then we have snow and every two or three years lately we are buried in the stuff. Winter can get oppressive, with seemingly no color but grey and white between late December and April. But, we have some of the best universities in the country, and while there is no place in the country that doesn't have some racism, here is one of the places where it's at its lowest. But if the South is preferred, well, I didn't think I would ever find a reason to say this, but even parts of Texas are preferable to Alabama... If it's just about temps, then yes I would agree with California too, except between the continuing drought and wild fires it may not be the best long-term plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    My Children just went to America in California, they spent 6 weeks with my sister. They loved it, they said how friendly everyone was, how people say Hi when just walking down the street, this is in stark contrast to the UK where people are more reserved.
    Markanddeya 108 Dasa ji, I am very glad your children had such a great time. What's funny is I have the exact opposite experience of the UK versus the East Coast - though here on the US east coast I think we are definitely more reserved and less immediately friendly.

    The poloce are getting a well deserved hard time, yes. The fact is there is plenty of corruption and abuses here too, we just hide it well. But now with the advent of a camera or two on every person and social media being connected to them, it is far harder for the Cops or anyone else to get away with things like this now. There was the case earlier in the spring about a woman who was recording a bust by US Marshalls. They were going to far and one Marshal realised she was recording them. This BIG guy with a rifle comes at the little woman all angry and shouty, and when she doesn't stop recording, he manhandled her (against the law), grabber her phone/cameral (again a violation), and threw it to the ground and stomped on it for good measure (again, against the law). He threatened her then walked away, clearly thinking he would get away with this. Why didn't he? Someone on the other side of the street, a few yards away caught the whole think on HIS phone's camera, and the Marshall had no idea he was there. There is no getting away with this stuff anymore, comeuppance is now due. And we are finally seeing it all over the country. Thank goodness, maybe it will finally bring some change.
    The way some Americans come across over the internet is sometimes a problem, especially with there free will of use of some certain words But I blame TV music and Movies for this.
    LOL, nah. This has been going on since at least the 20's. Probably longer. There's a strong feeling of individualism and entitlement here, less respect for age and position, respect is given when earned and most people believe that words are simply that: words. They have only the meaning that you give them and no more, and that meaning might not be negative for the one who speaks a word. Sticks and stones, and all that, words only hurt when you allow them to.

    In my region of the US we have a long-standing tradition of giving each other grief, playful teasing. It's a form of showing affection. If someone you love or a friend hasn't given you a hard time today then something might be wrong. :P People from more respectful cultures tend to misread this, too.

    ~Pranam
    ~~~~~
    What has Learning profited a man, if it has not led him to worship the good feet of Him who is pure knowledge itself?
    They alone dispel the mind's distress, who take refuge at the feet of the incomparable one.
    ~~Tirukural 2, 7

    Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam

  10. #20
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    Re: Follow Up

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Aanandinii View Post
    Seriously. Why anyone would choose to live there is beyond me.
    Most times one does not choose the area they live in, the area chooses them.

    Huntsville, Alabama is the missile capital of USA. So, engineers with certain specialities tend to gravitate towards that city for well paying secure jobs. Yes, I do know about its location in the deep South and the Good Ol' Boys there drinking whiskey and singing.....

    By and large Indians do well even in such areas as they mind their own business and have a support system from their association with the local temple. Huntsville has a nice Hindu temple on its outskirts too, which I visited many years ago. But I feel that certain individuals get into trouble because of their habits from the old country and their lack of understanding/embracing the traditional American values. In this case "looking" is what seems to have done it for the elderly man in question. He is walking in the neighborhood and looking towards open garages. This "looking" is so natural to people in India but over here, it scares people into believing that someone is casing their garage/home for a possible robbery. Compounded with that was the immature behavior of a young officer who does not understand the concept of applying force in proportion to the frame of the suspect. Taking down a belligerent 250 lb. young man is different from tackling a 100 lb frail old man. I will give the officer the benefit of the doubt in detaining the man without any racial bias, but his method was what he was taught at the academy, with no consideration given to the frailty of the subject. It was an unfortunate incident involving lot of misunderstandings and lack of use of brain. I wish there was a course for the new comers to teach them what is acceptable social behavior and what is not; because doing non acceptable things can land someone into hot water very quickly. I do hope that the old man gets the strength to live with his disability and the cop can learn from this experience and be a better human being and a better cop. The police academies need to teach the concept of proportional force to be used with the (supposed) criminals that they come into contact with.

    Pranam.

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