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Thread: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

  1. #11
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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    Indeed, there's mostly mention of seated postures like padmasana, virasana and others, but also some standing postures which is used for tapasya. I would not deny that Hatha yoga has been developing throughout the history of Bharata Dharma.

    Among millions of western practicioners there are virtually none who deny the origin of Hatha yoga in India and its connection with bharata dharma. This is all propaganda and lies.
    I agree and that's why I said that Aseem Shukla has probably raised more suspicion than doing anything helpful for the Hindus.

    There are even many who use hindu mantras and prayers in their sessions even if they are not hindus and have only little knowledge of Hindu Dharma.
    I have noticed this too and I am always delighted to see westerners chanting mantras and doing kirtana, even if they don't know much about Hinduism.

    I don´t know why anyone should want to deny to others to benefit from Hatha Yoga also if they are non Hindus. What is wrong for instance about Yoga against obesity? Many Hindus also suffer form obesity and visits clinics.

    Is it unspiritual to be healthy and spiritual to be sick?

    But instead of being proud that millions of people benefit form Hatha Yoga practice, even learn to respect Hindu deities and prayers, instead of realising that Hindus in turn are benefitting from the improvement of the practice by the addition of western knowledge of anatomy and medicine, some of the hindu leaders start a literal hate campaign against foreign Yogis.

    Congratulation on your leadership.With these leaders you do not need enemies.
    Yes, you make a good point, yoga can also be used for therapeutic purposes and we should be proud that people all over the world are using hatha yoga to make themselves healthier.

  2. #12
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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    The thing that always irritates me about Western attacks on "caste-ism" is the idea that the West is immune from such concepts.

    For example: My "real" last name is not "Morrigan." That's a pseudonym that I use for writing and the Internet, in order to not air my "business" in public. My real last name identifies me as an "Immemorial Noble" of England. Basically, that means that I am a direct descendant of the English nobility. In 1066 CE, my ancestor of the same name was a knight in William the Conqueror's Norman invasion of England, and his descendants held many titles in England until our family fell out of favor in the 1700s, leading my branch to move to the US and start anew.

    For hundreds of years, my lineage and last name would have been all that was needed to show that I was essentially of the Western version of the "Kshatriya" varna, and certainly above the status of the Western "Vaishyas" with names like "Baker," "Smith," or "Cooper." Still, in modern times, many people of noble descent have dropped the "de," or "von," from their last names in order to not seem so "snooty."

    In ancient Rome, the "castes" were (in this order) Patrician, Equite, Plebeian, and Servi.

    Anyone who thinks that Western societies have no "Shudras," should really walk around a Western city for a few hours. You will see them...and you will see many Westerners recoiling from them as from "untouchables."

    The West has no more moral "authority" on this matter than India, and should instead focus on helping the Indian government deal with the Christian and Muslim terrorists in the Northeast and Northwest.

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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    And this is one of my favorite excerpts from Malhotra's counter-essay:

    "The new buzz of excitement in these radical right-wing Christian circles is that this is the right time to introduce bills in the US Congress whose ultimate effect would be to pressure the Indian government on certain social policies. Demands will be made that could try to: (1) open the floodgates for massive faith-based funding from overseas, in the guise of human rights, far more openly than before; (2) enact laws or policies in India to curtail Hindu voices further; (3) require that US corporate activities and investments in India should give employment preference to certain "minorities" and "oppressed" peoples, and Christian groups have prepared their ground forces in India over several years to pounce on this opportunity and claim the lion's share of the benefits; and (4) start prosecuting caste-based "human rights violations" under international laws."

    People in India need to realize that the Left in the USA and the Left in India are two different things. India is generally FAR to the Left of the USA in political issues...and the Right-Wing in America is basically nothing more than a tool of the Christian Dominionists. This is why, in America, I am considered to be a "Liberal," but in India I would basically be considered a "Moderate" or even "Right-Winger" on many subjects.

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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    Indeed, there's mostly mention of seated postures like padmasana, virasana and others, but also some standing postures which is used for tapasya.
    Yes, tapasya, that is correct, that indeed is the most ancient element of Yoga that indeed goes back to vedic times but rather to the shramanas, than to the vedic community.

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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    How do you explain this line from the Hatha Pradipika:

    praṇamya śrī-guruṃ nāthaṃ svātmārāmeṇa yoghinā |
    kevalaṃ rāja-yoghāya haṭha-vidyopadiśyate || 2 ||

    Yogin Swâtmârâma, after saluting first his Gurû Srinâtha explains Haṭha Yoga for the attainment of Raja Yoga.

    What is raaja yoga here?

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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    How do you explain this line from the Hatha Pradipika:

    praṇamya śrī-guruṃ nāthaṃ svātmārāmeṇa yoghinā |
    kevalaṃ rāja-yoghāya haṭha-vidyopadiśyate || 2 ||

    Yogin Swâtmârâma, after saluting first his Gurû Srinâtha explains Haṭha Yoga for the attainment of Raja Yoga.

    What is raaja yoga here?
    Raja Yoga is the practice of the Shadangas according to the tantras, which is other than in Pantanjali Yoga sutras. Raja Yoga here is concernend with the conquest of the three lakshyas, the 16 adharas and the chakras. It means in the context of the H.Y.P. or Natha sampradaya, that the stages of Raja Yoga are first concerned with the marma points,(Pratyahara) moving conciousness and prana shakti up and down the body in certain sequences, dharana is meditation on the bhutas and other objects partly internalised in the body, partly located outside (16 adharas), while dhyana is fully internalised, dwelling on the chakras and nada/Bindu only, and samadhi is achieved by Kundalini jagaran either by Laya Yoga or nada Anusandhana or both.

    Some would say that the whole krama starting with becoming mindful of the marmas and ending with kundalini Jagaran is Raja Yoga. Others may say that only the last stage Nada Anusandhana or Laya Yoga is truly Raja Yoga.

    The Verse does not mean thatthe Raja Yoga described is only based on Patanjali and is something separete or even more advanced than Hatha Yoga, it only means that the HYP gradually leads one through all the steps to the topmost achievements, which are described in the HYP as Raja Yoga. So the Raja Yoga meant in that verse is exactly what is described in the very same shastra, of course it is not what Patanjali understood as being Raja Yoga according to the samkhya doctrine, as some uneducated people that want to belittle Hatha Yoga and Tantra as being inferior to Patanjalis Raja Yoga might like to make people belive. Exactly what one would expect of people that look down on Hatha Yoga.

    People confuse the Patanjali Yoga darshana which is based on Samkhya darshana, with the Hatha Yoga originating from Nath sampradaya which is based on the tantras and agamas and aims to realise the shambhavi or samarasya achievement rather than aiming for complete mental isolation, reached in the state of Kaivalya of the Samkhya doctrine and propagated in Patanjalis Yoga sutras as the highest achievement.
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 22 February 2011 at 12:16 PM.

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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    In the version of the HYP in 10 chapters, which is a more complete variety of the shastra the verse runs like this:

    sri AdinAthaya namostute tasmai
    yenopadistA hatha yoga vidyA
    virAyate pronnata rAja yogam
    Arodhum Icchor adhirohinIva

    I bow to sri adinatha who propagated the hatha yoga knowledge
    which is regarded a ladder to reach the highest state of Raja Yoga.

    Which is a little more clearly in pointing out that the HYP teaches a graded path, (beginning with yama niyama, asana, pranayama and culminating in Raja Yoga)

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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    Interesting, that is the first verse in the 4 chapter version, I posted the third verse, where can we get the 10 chapter version?

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    Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    Interesting, that is the first verse in the 4 chapter version, I posted the third verse, where can we get the 10 chapter version?
    The 10 chapter version begins with a salutation to Ganesha and the statement:

    atha hatha pradipo likhyate, "now the hathapradipa is written" followed by the quote i mentioned as verse 3 and then it goes right on with verse 2 of the 4chapter version "pranamya srigurum..." etc.

    followed by verse 3 which is also quite similar to the 4 chapter version:

    "bhrAntya bahumata dhvante rajayogamajAnatAm
    hathapradipikam dhatte svAtmArAmaH ksamAkarah"

    For the benefit of those deluded by divergent views who are full of ignorance of Rajayoga, Svatmarama expounds, full of compassion, the Hathapradipika.


    So it is very clearly stated, if we look at the verses in context, in the beginning of the shastra that the aim of the book is to provide a complete yoga manual for absolute beginners those "full of ignorance of Rajayoga" and it will gradually lead them from the very beginning, in this case yama and niyama, to the highest states of Yoga.

    The 10 chapter version is available form lonavla institue Lonavla 41401 Pune India A-7 gulmohar apartment, Bhangarvadi
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 22 February 2011 at 05:23 PM.

  10. Re: The Idiocy of Hindus - HAF's 'Not Cast in Caste'

    Quote Originally Posted by BryonMorrigan;59114/6
    .........................
    It was wonderful great Hindu Warriors, before spreading of Christianity might be your forefathers were King / Earl / Duke of some Kingdom or Empire.
    But I have to clear something, In India there was never Casteism, all this is made politically
    in caste they only want reservation quota, that’s why they call themselves Dalit / Backward to get SC / ST / OBC etc caste based benefits.

    Hinduism clears Varna system, and that is based on Karma and not Birth, and no Varna among four was untouchable, only Adharm or Kukarm doers were untouchables, anti Hindus are spreading lies.


    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    ---------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
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    Is this a Yog thread ?
    [CENTER][B][FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=7][COLOR=Yellow] ॐ[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
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