Krsna as Madhusudana

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,
I was wondering if some of you can discuss this and 'connect the dots' on this matter.

I was looking for the demon Madhu and Madhusudana -He who defeated the demon Madhu.

I have not read of Madhu with Krsna in my various readings, Yet Arjuna calls Krsna Madhusudha multiple times in the Bhagavad gita (1.35, 2.1, 2.4, 6.33, and 8.2).

Madhusudana can also mean - He who defeats madhu i.e. मधु honey ,sweet , delicious , pleasant , charming , delightful. Now where is the connection here? I have read that the ego is like honey, sweet, as it makes one forget his own identity, the SELF. And it's interesting to know that madhu also has the definition of bitter or pungent. So at first the ego is sweet and then can be bitter. Hense Madhusadana has the ability to destroy this ego with knowledge.

It is also my understanding that Lord Vishnu tangled with Madhu and Kaitabha¹ and destroyed them. Sri Vishnu as Hayagriva fought Madhu and Katabha, retrieving the Vedic scriptures .

Hense could it be that Arjuna calls Krsna Madhusudana to connect Him with Sri Visnu? Any thoughts or insights are welcomed.


Madhu and Kaitabha below... being slain.


1. http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/...shnu/madhu.htm

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Yajvan ji

Other that what you have stated it would be very difficult at least for me to elaborate any further.
It would be interesting to consider the context in which Arjun addresses Krishna in each verses for that might hold the clue this query. Even Krishna addresses Arjun by different names to make a point I think.

Jai Shree Krishna

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,
I was looking for the demon Madhu and Madhusudana -He who defeated the demon Madhu.

I have not read of Madhu with Krsna in my various readings, Yet Arjuna calls Krsna Madhusudha multiple times in the Bhagavad gita (1.35, 2.1, 2.4, 6.33, and 8.2).

Namaste -
So for me, here is the pickle. Arjuna calls Krsna Madhusudana before he ( Arjuna) ever sees Krsna's Universal form. This occurs in Chapt 11. Yet Arjuna understands Krsna to be parambrahma in chapt 10. In both cases this would be before this observation I made:

Hense could it be that Arjuna calls Krsna Madhusudana to connect Him with Sri Visnu?

Arjuna perhaps had not fully recognized Krsna as Visnu , yet still calls Him Madhusudha, a different view of Visnu.

In the Mahabharta before the Gita occurs Krsna is recognized by the Pandava as Lord.

So it is a curious thing for me... and perhaps it lies in the method of how Veda Vyasa (Krsna Dwaipayana) chooses to unfold the Divinity and Fullness of Krsna, and the relationship of nara and Narayana.




pranams

[sarabhanga]

I have not read of Madhu with Krsna in my various readings

Namaste Yajvan,

And welcome back!

The madhavas (plural of madhu) or mAdhavas are the very yAdavas.

madhu is “sweet, delicious, pleasant, charming, delightful, bitter or pungent”.

madhu is “the first month of the year, or the season of spring”.

madhu indicates jIvA (“life, existence, the earth, or a bow-string”).

madhu is “anything sweet (especilly if liquid), soma, honey, milk or anything produced from milk (as butter, ghee, etc.), the juice or nectar of flowers, any sweet intoxicating drink, wine, mead, or spirituous liquor”.

mAdhavA is “relating to spring, or vernal”, and mAdhava is “belonging or peculiar to the descendants of madhu (i.e. the yAdavas), representing kRSNa, a son or descendant of madhu, a man of the race of yadu (especially kRSNa himself)”.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan,

And welcome back!

The madhavas (plural of madhu) or mAdhavas are the very yAdavas.

madhu is �sweet, delicious, pleasant, charming, delightful, bitter or pungent�.

madhu is �the first month of the year, or the season of spring�.

madhu indicates jIvA (�life, existence, the earth, or a bow-string�).

madhu is �anything sweet (especilly if liquid), soma, honey, milk or anything produced from milk (as butter, ghee, etc.), the juice or nectar of flowers, any sweet intoxicating drink, wine, mead, or spirituous liquor�.

mAdhavA is �relating to spring, or vernal�, and mAdhava is �belonging or peculiar to the descendants of madhu (i.e. the yAdavas), representing kRSNa, a son or descendant of madhu, a man of the race of yadu (especially kRSNa himself)�.

Namaste sarabhanga,
Thank you , as this cracks the code:

The madhavas (plural of madhu) or mAdhavas are the very yAdavas.

Thanks again.

pranams,

[sarabhanga]

madhusUdana is �destroyer of honey�, indicating �a bee�.

sUdana is �putting in order or guiding aright�, or �killing or destroying�.

sUdanam is �destruction�, �the act of killing or slaying� or �the act of ejecting or throwing away�, and sUdanam is also �the act of assenting, agreeing or promising�.

madhusUdana is �one putting sweetness (and bitterness) in order�, �the true guide of soma�, �the avid enjoyer, consumer, or slayer, of soma, jIvA, etc.�, �controller of existence�, �one promising spring, honey, milk, soma, life�, etc.

And madhuSut (�pressing out sweetness or emitting sweetness�) appears in the Rgveda in reference to soma.

Considering the various implications of all combinations of meaning, the range of meaning implied by the term madhusUdana should be clear.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~

madhusUdana is �destroyer of honey�, indicating �a bee�.

sUdana is �putting in order or guiding aright�, or �killing or destroying�.

sUdanam is �destruction�, �the act of killing or slaying� or �the act of ejecting or throwing away�, and sUdanam is also �the act of assenting, agreeing or promising�.

madhusUdana is �one putting sweetness (and bitterness) in order�, �the true guide of soma�, �the avid enjoyer, consumer, or slayer, of soma, jIvA, etc.�, �controller of existence�, �one promising spring, honey, milk, soma, life�, etc.

And madhuSut (�pressing out sweetness or emitting sweetness�) appears in the Rgveda in reference to soma.

Considering the various implications of all combinations of meaning, the range of meaning implied by the term madhusUdana should be clear.

Namaste sarabhanga,
beautiful...

[kd gupta]

Thank you very much for showing so beautiful pictures,
Goswamiji writes in ramcharitmanas for praying shatruhan as
Riusudan pad kamal namami, sudan means slayer.
Krishna as an avtar of bhagwan Vishnu, who killed demon MADHU, is also called madhusudan . Krishna is called Vasudeo as an avtar of VISHNU and not due to son of vesdeva.
Also Krishna can be called madhusudan , as master of Vedas , which contains madhuvidya and not recognizing Vedas as prayers for physical findings by karmakand etc.see�
The rituals and sacrifices mentioned in the karma-kanda division of the
Vedic literature are to encourage gradual development of selfrealization.
And the purpose of self-realization is clearly stated in
the Fifteenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita (15.15): the purpose of
studying the Vedas is to know Lord Krsna, the primeval cause of
everything. So, self-realization means understanding Krsna and one's
eternal relationship with Him. The relationship of the living entities
with Krsna is also mentioned in the Fifteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita
(15.7). The living entities are parts and parcels of Krsna; therefore,
revival of Krsna consciousness by the individual living entity is the
highest perfectional stage of Vedic knowledge. This is confirmed in the
Srimad-Bhagavatam (3.33.7) as follows:
aho bata sva-paco 'to gariyan
yaj-jihvagre vartate nama tubhyam
tepus tapas te juhuvuh sasnur arya
brahmanucur nama grnanti ye te
"O my Lord, a person who is chanting Your holy name, although born of a
low family like that of a candala [dog-eater] is situated on the
highest platform of self-realization. Such a person must have performed
all kinds of penances and sacrifices according to Vedic rituals and
studied the Vedic literatures many, many times after taking his bath in
all the holy places of pilgrimage. Such a person is considered to be
the best of the Aryan family."
So one must be intelligent enough to understand the purpose of the
Vedas, without being attached to the rituals only, and must not desire
to be elevated to the heavenly kingdoms for a better quality of sense
gratification. It is not possible for the common man in this age to
follow all the rules and regulations of Vedic rituals and the
injunctions of the Vedanta and the Upanisads. It requires much time,
energy, knowledge and resources to execute the purposes of the Vedas.
This is hardly possible in this age. The best purpose of Vedic culture
is served, however, by chanting the holy name of the Lord, as
recommended by Lord Caitanya, the deliverer of all fallen souls. When
Lord Caitanya was asked by a great Vedic scholar, Prakasananda
Sarasvati, why He, the Lord, was chanting the holy name of the Lord
like a sentimentalist instead of studying Vedanta philosophy, the Lord
replied that His spiritual master found Him to be a great fool and thus
asked Him to chant the holy name of Lord Krsna. He did so, and became
ecstatic like a madman. In this Age of Kali, most of the population is
foolish and not adequately educated to understand Vedanta philosophy;
the best purpose of Vedanta philosophy is served by inoffensively
chanting the holy name of the Lord. Vedanta is the last word in Vedic
wisdom, and the author and knower of the Vedanta philosophy is Lord
Krsna; and the highest Vedantist is the great soul who takes pleasure
in chanting the holy name of the Lord. That is the ultimate purpose of
all Vedic mysticism

[devotee]

Namaste Yajvan ji,

I am sure your doubts would be clear by now. I would like to add my opinion here :

Lord Krishna unlike Lord Rama never hid the fact the He himself was Lord Vishnu. That is why it is said that Lord Krishna was an incarnation with 100% Godliness & Rama's was only 75 %. There were many instances even before the war started when he showed that he was not merely a human being. I will mention a few here :

i) When as a child he was eating mud/earth, Ma Yashoda got very angry & ran to hit him with a stick. Krishna smiled & said that he never ate it & her anger was out of place. This made Ma even more angry as there were spots on his mouth belying his statement. Ma asked Krishna to open his mouth. Lord Krishna opened his mouth & when Ma Yashoda saw inside, she saw the entire Universe in motion inside his mouth. She got scared & sat down with folded hands & that is when Lord Krishna smiled again & she forgot everything.

ii) When Shishupal broke the limit of 100 abuses hurled by him to Lord Krishna, he used his Sudarshan Chakra ( the well known "astra" of Lord Vishnu) to slay him.

iii) When it was almost clear that the war could not be stopped, Lord Krishna goes to Kauravas / Duryodhan for making him understand the ills of a war & for asking them to give only 5 villages to Pandavas in lieu of going for a war. Duryodhan insults him & orders to take him captive. Lord Krishna shows his Viraat Swarupa & dares him to capture him. Everyone becomes very much terrified & Lord Krishna leaves from there leaving them stunned.

So, to the devotees of Lord Krishna there never was any doubt that He was the Lord of all - an incarnation of Vishnu. So, Arjuna calling him Madhusudana was not out of place.

Regards,

OM