Vairagya?

[c.smith]

Hari Om!

Can one have vairagya and still say something is beautiful, ugly, or neutral? Example from today. While driving, noticed a car that was nice. Simply acknowledged the fact that I liked it and moved on. I didn't want the car, just a simple statement that it existed. Same could be true in reverse I assume. Please help me understand.

Makes it a little more difficult perhaps when it comes to people. If someone looks nice, beautiful, etc, does that make them "attractive" or can one simply state a fact without creating attachment? Jane Doe is quite beautiful in my eyes (though probably repulsive to some) but that doesn't mean that I want a relationship with her or even to become her acquaintance.

Perhaps my definitions of detachment and dispassion are off kilter.

Please share your insights if you'd be so kind!

Jai Jai Hanuman!

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam c.smith:

Only an unobservant fool wouldn't notice a car's colour, a pretty woman, a pothole in the road, road kill, or anything else ... beautiful, or ugly. These are just adjectives used to describe the daily variety of life we encounter. Is it not the emotional entanglements or outbursts or plans of action that indicate an attachment?

One old man's thoughts.

Aum Namasivaya

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste c.smith,

The way we perceive is greatly coloured by the light with which we see; this changes all the time, if we are separated
enough from this change of light, so as to become aware of this happening, we are no longer pleased by the same
aspects of it.

So how do we insure that our perspective is not deluding us? These thoughts are like the wind or vāyu, they change.
It is perfectly normal to have these thoughts, but it is foolish to act upon them; many are completely ruled by them.

Detachment, I find, comes from knowing that this is superficial movement and thus, ojas gained in this way is
highly ephemeral.

To the extent that we may even become dependant on the sight of objects; then, when the light changes, so do we.
For a good example; Brand marketing works with, and is entirely based on this mechanism.
As is the tale of "The Emperors new clothes"!


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

[devotee]

Namaste Smith,


Can one have vairagya and still say something is beautiful, ugly, or neutral? Example from today. While driving, noticed a car that was nice. Simply acknowledged the fact that I liked it and moved on. I didn't want the car, just a simple statement that it existed. Same could be true in reverse I assume. Please help me understand.

Makes it a little more difficult perhaps when it comes to people. If someone looks nice, beautiful, etc, does that make them "attractive" or can one simply state a fact without creating attachment? Jane Doe is quite beautiful in my eyes (though probably repulsive to some) but that doesn't mean that I want a relationship with her or even to become her acquaintance.

Perhaps my definitions of detachment and dispassion are off kilter.

Please share your insights if you'd be so kind!


Vairagya doesn't mean that you turn into a piece of stone. VairAgya means what ? VairAgya or non-attachment from sensual pleasures and freedom from fear of pains (mental or physical) ... seeing God in everything. When there is God in everything ... then I would see beauty and love there. However, if I see beauty to satisfy my hunger for the eyes, then it is bondage. The seeing of beauty should come from the heart with love. Similarly, doing something as a mere duty as a fellow human being ... like appreciating the beauty of someone to boost his/her image in his/her own eyes is arising out of love for the person and is not bondage.

Actually, it is our intentions which bind us and not the actions by itself. That is why Lord Krishna says in Bhagwad Gita :

"He who sees inaction in action and action in inaction is intelligent among the men".

Actions by themselves are not tainted. They are as good as inaction if done without attachment as these don't create any Karma.

OM

[c.smith]

Hari Om!

From Sw. Sivananda's How To Get Vairagya - Remember these seven vital points.

1. Hari Om, Sensual pleasure is momentary, deceptive, illusory and imaginary.
3. Enjoyment cannot bring about satisfaction of a desire. On the contrary it makes the mind more restless after enjoyment through intense craving (Trishnas and Vasanas).
5. Sensual pleasure is the cause for birth and death.

The first one sent chills down my spine the first time I read it. Now each time I read the seven, which can be found in the book in its entirety at http://www.dlshq.org/download/vairagya.pdf on page 9 of 58, I get more and more from them. 1,3,5 and 7 ring true right now and I'm hoping to have a better explanation from members here or from the book itself by the time I've completed reading it in full. Perhaps both?

Jai Jai Hanuman!

[satay]

namaskar,
Vairagya as I understand is detachment, indifference yet not uninterest meaning one can lead life, provide for family, take care of elders, perform all family duties but without attachment, that is vairagya. It is okay to acknowledge beauty in things and people.

Like Devotee said, we are not stones, we live and breathe.

[Maya3]

We are not stones, and I think most of us are not Sanyasins.

You live in this body in this amazing world, we are here to enjoy it. That does not mean that we should be so attached that we can't do what we need to do, but if you try not to see things, you would just be lying to yourself.

Maya

[c.smith]

Hari Om!

Yes, I sincerely agree that we cannot try not to see things, it's just that we must not become attached and I'm still not certain if like or dislike is a form of such. Help!!

Further, not certain that I can agree that we are here to enjoy. Are we truly? Granted, life gives its ups and downs but not being attached to the results of such? Sounds kind of like a possible blend of vairagya and karma yoga?

As you can see I still have much to learn and digest. Your further comments and debate is appreciated.

Jai Jai Hanuman!

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste c.smith,


Your title signature speaks volumes for you, "on the path".

These distractions of which you speak, are vāyu, if your convictions are firm and your direction sure;
how can these gusts take you from your path?

Your path is a reflection of your mind; is it consistent? Maybe it flickers?
If it is consistent, then you need not worry about the wind, if it flickers then you might need to
renounce more seriously.
Long enough to learn to calm ones breathing, is all that I would recommend; so as to perceive your
path more clearly.
Joy still exists when one sees the world with dispassion, it is fed by a different source. One which
flows in a much more natural way. Material things which are pleasing to the eye, will seem like
children's toys, they are just not so appealing.
Those who remain attached to the material world, even in their religious practis; are still in bondage.

Look on it as maturing spiritually, consciously; one turns ones attention to other more universal
matters and becomes passionate about them instead, fixedly, one pointedly.

The path no longer flickers.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


life gives its ups and downs but not being attached to the results of such? Sounds kind of like a possible blend of vairagya and karma yoga? Life gives its ups and downs but not being attached to the results of such? Sounds kind of like a possible blend of vairagya and karma yoga?
There is no doubt ups-and-downs. Yet for the adept ( the spiritually advanced) one is not swayed by it. This is not a matter of mood making but a direct experience.

First let's consider this word vairāgya. It is defined as aversion , indifference to worldly objects ; it is not defined as 'detachment' , yet this idea does come up in the progression to the full blossoming of vairāgya.
This indifference is not a mental mind-constuct i.e. an intellectual choice , oh I will be indifferent to what I see. This indifference comes about as one becomes more aligned with the Self or antarātmā; one is NOT pretending to be indifferent. This indifference comes as one is more captivated/interested in Self, and not in the other things of life.

Its said in the śiva sūtra-s¹, prekṣakāṇīndriyāṇi || . The indriyāṇi-s or the sense organs are prekṣaka or spectators, members of an audience. The senses are doing their work as bringing the world to the adept/yogī yet he/she is absorbed in the Self ( antarātmā). The world is there, in all its brillant colors and shapse ( even brigher and clearer then ever before), yet one is not captured , posessed, or motivated by it.
This is why the 34th sūtra says tadvimuktastu kevalī || . This says the adept is seperated from pleasure and pain. This is 'code' for all opposites that appear within differentated consciousness of wake-dream-sleep ( sleep being the most undifferentated here).

This sūtra says he is established in kevalī . What is this ? It is 'exclusively one's own' ... but one's own what ? Ones own Being, that of antarātmā. This word kevalī also means simple , pure , uncompounded , unmingled . Within the Self it is 'unmingled' with differentiated consciousness - that of the activity of the whole world of diversity.

With this kevalī we can see why one is indifferent to worldly objects . Why so ? Because s/he is facing inwards; the outside world remains in all its beauty, ups-and-downs, yet one is secure and achored to the Self, to Being.

praṇām

1. śiva sūtra-s 3.11

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam C Smith and all

A perfect example of vairagya and karma yog, comes to mind of a character in Ramayan. King Janak of Mithila is known as Videhi, well versed in shastra and vedas, deciple of Yajnavalkya whose teaching of Brahman is documented in Brihadarnyaka Upanishad, his example is also get a mention in Bhagvat Gita.

although a Rishi King Janak saw to the worldly affairs in his Kingdom and dealt with it perfectly.


Are we of that caliber can we trust our mind looking at a beautiful person and not feel the lust, only a person who is on that path can judge for himself bearing in mind the parmatma resides in our heart, we can fool the world but not him. these are just my thoughts not directed at anyone.


Jai Shree Krishna

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



More on vairāgya can be found at this HDF post:

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=82055&postcount=7


praṇām

[silence_speaks]

A child, when he grows up, how does he leave his toys ?

Thats vairagya.

Vairagya is born of understanding : Viveka

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

A child, when he grows up, how does he leave his toys ?
A child that grows up physically and mentally , yet not spiritually exchanges his/her toys of youth for toys found in adulthood. Cars, homes, etc. surrounding one with more attachments.
It is the notion that these things may bring some joy... Yet the chāndogya upaniṣad informs us, nālpe sukham asti or finite (alpa) things do not (na) contain happiness (suka).

praṇām

[silence_speaks]

very true dear yajvan :)

[jasdir]

:) Hari Om!

Can one have vairagya and still say something is beautiful, ugly, or neutral? Example from today. While driving, noticed a car that was nice. Simply acknowledged the fact that I liked it and moved on. I didn't want the car, just a simple statement that it existed. Same could be true in reverse I assume. Please help me understand.

Makes it a little more difficult perhaps when it comes to people. If someone looks nice, beautiful, etc, does that make them "attractive" or can one simply state a fact without creating attachment? Jane Doe is quite beautiful in my eyes (though probably repulsive to some) but that doesn't mean that I want a relationship with her or even to become her acquaintance.

Perhaps my definitions of detachment and dispassion are off kilter.

Please share your insights if you'd be so kind!

Jai Jai Hanuman!
What is vairagya ?
The true name for vairagya is Beragya, its the composition of two words BE+RAG.
BE means No
RAG means rhythm
Combining both it means BERAG or No RHYTHM.

When does true vairagya appears ?
After enjoying all wordly pleasures ie: Sex, money, things, faimly etc.. , when somebody realize that its impossible to get permanent joy/peace in such wordly things because they are not stable for ever, Than mind rush towards permanet joy/ God/ Truth. This "state of affair" which appears in the search of truth/god is "Vairagya".

How does true vairagya appears ?
It appears only by the grace of god. :)

Syptoms of true vairagya person ?
Start behaving like stupids,
Start eating less,
Start sleeping less,
Start speaking less,

Well.. its a dangerous state of affair, some people decide to commit sucide too.. :)

Who can control such person ?
Only a true satguru can control such person, such person cannnot be treated by any doctor.

The goal of vairagya ?
One day such person definatly get one with god. :)

_/\_Jasdir.

[jasdir]

Well.. Seeing and praising a car, or any women/men, or any beautiful wordly thing is very far, if one has got just imagination of any of these, than one may understand that he/she is very far away from this state of vairagya. :)