View Full Version : Stop fussing about the sufis, please
07 May 2011, 07:50 AM
The debate on the proposal to build a mosque at Ground Zero continues to hog the headlines but I took special notice of a certain point made by the Imam who thinks building the Mosque is necessary in order to prevent the enragement of the Radical Islamists in the Middle East. And he claims his being a Sufi automatically implies his non-association with Radical Islam. The first question to ask would be whether there is something called non-radical Islam? There probably are a few non-radical Moslems. It is quite incorrect to assume that the Sufis are all about love, peace and religious harmony. History paints a drastically different picture. When I mentioned this to some of my American friends, they expressed total disbelief and threw around a big fuss.
Now, some examples for our friends:
07 May 2011, 09:44 AM
Of course you could say that Sufis aren't Muslim. But if you ask one I'm sure they would say that they went to the core of Allah, bypast the Qur'an(yet they still hold it in regard) and went to the proverbial heart of Allah which they say(in no unfamiliar terms) is present in each living entity and all living entities.
I'm not saying that Sufis are just as Hindu as Hindus but I am saying that mystics in each spiritual tradition are pointers to the divine truth.
07 May 2011, 10:21 AM
The first question to ask would be whether there is something called non-radical Islam?
And, we all know the answer.
......I am saying that mystics in each spiritual tradition are pointers to the divine truth.....
Even a hint of comparing sufis to Hindu mystics, amounts to the the same gullible thinking that all paths are the same, that even morally bankrupt 'social orders' can be classified as 'spiritual traditions', that they all lead to the Divine, and yada, yada, yada - the Universalist thinking, which tries to take a make believe moral high ground and offers pacifist thinking to the 'spiritual terrorists', who are hell bent on conversions and religious domination/supremacy. This moral high ground is neither moral nor high!
07 May 2011, 04:32 PM
What I quoted above was part of a blogpost on kamakotimandala, please read the entire blogpost. It is not about "universalism," but about the myth that sufis are more peaceful/ spiritual sect within Islam. Quoting from the blogpost: "There hardly ever was a Sufi who walked the Indian soil that seems to have had no ulterior motive."
Also see this previous thread about sufism, the posts of MahaHrada are of special interest:
07 May 2011, 05:21 PM
Sahas, I am in agreement with your posts. I was taking issue with the hint of spirituality/mysticism in Islam with the use of words 'mystics in each spiritual tradition', by the second poster.
07 May 2011, 05:33 PM
I know, I just didn't respond to anyone directly, so that might have caused confusion. :)
07 May 2011, 08:01 PM
This reply is not to Sahas or Believer. Both of you may please forgive me, if my opinion doesn't matches yours.
I have read Sufism and read about a number of Sufi saints, mostly Rabia, Al Mansoor Hallaz and Rumi. I have found Sufism very close to Advaita (with a difference, of course). These people appear to have come into contact with Hindu saints at some point of time as their beliefs are apparently contrary to the teachings of Q'uran. "Apparently" because they (the Sufis) don't consider their thinking contrary to Q'uran. They say that there are seven layers of meaning of Q'uran (in fact, Q'uran does say that it should not be interpreted purely literally) & they have their own version of the mystical meaning.
Those who are interested to know the Truth should not fall trap to this type of propaganda which can only spread hatred. Let me tell all of you who are interested that Sufis are highly respected by a majority of Hindus. There are innumerable villages in India where you can find shrines dedicated to a Sufi saint. In my village, Shah Jhakharia Peer was such a Sufi saint. He is revered by both Hindus and Muslims equally. There is no marriage in the village where a Hindu newly wed couple doesn't seek the blessings of the Peer. Dargaah of Khwaza Saleem Chisti of Fatehpur Sikri is a popular visit of the Hindus too along with the Muslims. Ajmer Sharif is another such Sufi shrine where you will find thousands of Hindus visiting the shrine every month. In Sindh, the Hindu and Sufi traditions are much more mixed. The famous song, "Damaadam Mast kalandar" seeks blessings from both Jhulelal ji and Shakhi Shabaaz Kalandar. I have the privilege of visiting and staying in various parts of India & learning their culture & I can tell you that common Hindus revere the Sufi saints in the same manner as they revere their own saints.
Just spreading hatred between two communities for any reason should not be our pastime. People who are out to indulge in such unholy activities mix hearsay and fabricated stories to poison people's mind. I needn't reiterate that how baseless canards have been spread on this forum itself against Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansa, Sri Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi without making any effort to study the real historical facts. This is our degeneration. We are becoming fanatic and we are proud of it !
I hope my this post would protect the unsuspecting minds from such harmful propaganda.
Friend from the West
07 May 2011, 08:59 PM
Greetings and namaste,
The sufis that I have met have been incredible. Perhaps elitist towards the way they felt about the Quran. Actions that I have observed have been almost unreal in my limited world view. Based on what I have seen they do certainly love people and their view of the Way. I could never reconcile the Quran with love. This is said with no disrespect intented but it is my truth. But the individuals who I have spent time around who are Sufis, I most admire. Their path is not mine but wow.
After Russia helped eradicate them in Chechneya and they were alomst elimated in the former Yugoslavia, what have we seen in these areas with the conversion by force of these beauftiful people by violence on their persons of the Wahhabi/Salafis? To me, this speaks loudly.
My two cents.
07 May 2011, 10:28 PM
Several years ago I had the sufis in higher esteem than now, but history truly speaks for itself in this matter and therefore I have discarded all romantic notions about the so called peaceful sufis. Islam has the rule of taqqiya and any muslim may pretend outwardly to be tolerant while hiding their real agenda. Hindus are too easy accepting everyone and anyone as saints. Some ignorant Indians even hold the nazis in high regard.
08 May 2011, 11:45 AM
A cathartic release aimed at no one in particular, and at every one in general, may help the long bottled up emotions to finally come out and see the light of the day, but it does nothing to alter/face the ground reality. Termites can, and will make giant logs of Hindu culture hollow from within, without showing much sign of outward damage, until conversions occur. Spiritually unhinged people will continue to shop around by visiting monuments designated as 'shrines' by the other, so called 'faiths', in search of the elusive 'peace of mind'. The temporary 'feel good' from the 'higher moral plateau' is equated to the nobility of thought and young minds are warned to stay away from any semblance of sanity. To give an air of holiness to the 'divine message', the narrative is peppered with terms like 'hearsay', 'hatred', 'unholy', 'baseless canards', 'poison' etc. And therein lies the misfortune of Hindus and what little is left of the Hindu nation - a race conditioned by the foreign conquerors and oppressors of the past, to accept their subjugated mindset and to continue living in a dreamlike state.
09 May 2011, 11:12 AM
Devotees of those sufis are also mostly anti Hindus, Muslims boast too much about those sufis, but they have no knowledge about them.
You will find Muslims (Even in Hindu Names) Priesing Sufis and Islam, they will reject the truth about forcible conversion and will claim that those Muslim Jats, Muslim Rajputs, Muslim Maraths etc converted to Islam because of 'caste discrimination' by 'Upper Caste Hindus'.
They have no knowledge about Sufis who themselves in their texts had praised Hinduism.
By the way Sahasranama, when did you started praising Sufis ? Many of their Shrines were build on Hindu temples.
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